Evidence of meeting #3 for Status of Women in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was child.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Kevin McCreadie  Chief Executive Officer and Chief Investment Officer, AGF Management Limited
Penny Wise  President, 3M Canada
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Stephanie Bond
Leah Nord  Senior Director, Workforce Strategies and Inclusive Growth, Canadian Chamber of Commerce
Vicky Smallman  National Director, Human Rights, Canadian Labour Congress
Tracy Smith-Carrier  Associate Professor, King’s University College at Western University, As an Individual
Michelle van Beusekom  Co-Founder, Protect People in Long-Term Care, As an Individual

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Marilyn Gladu

That's your time.

Ms. Larouche, you have the floor for six minutes.

11:30 a.m.

Bloc

Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for being here this morning. It's very worthwhile to hear about the position of women in the economy. I'm convinced that the economic recovery must be feminist, because the pandemic has disproportionately affected women. It's a matter of mathematics. Women have been more affected, so more measures must be identified to encourage them to return to their position.

I don't know where to start, but I'll speak to you, Mr. McCreadie. Do women encounter any specific challenges in their search for funding? We're hearing more and more about the importance of setting up specific programs for women entrepreneurs, so for women's entrepreneurship.

How has the funding of women-owned businesses been particularly affected by COVID-19, and how were some emergency programs inadequate during the pandemic? For example, many women entrepreneurs were unable to access the Canada Emergency Business Account for the reasons that you identified. These are often very small businesses.

How can the Canadian government ensure that women, in their search for funding, receive assistance to overcome these additional challenges?

11:30 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer and Chief Investment Officer, AGF Management Limited

Kevin McCreadie

I fully agree. I don't think that we have done enough to support women entrepreneurs and small businesses. Many of the programs were for medium-sized businesses. Equally important are the sole practitioners, people who have left and tried to upskill and to start their own companies. Whether they be a single practitioner who's an accountant or a consultant or someone who wants to start a physical business today, I don't think we have enough availability for women, especially women who are parents or single. When you look at it, it's been difficult for everybody, but especially for that cohort.

I think, yes, if you look at the engine of an economy, this economy, it's small businesses, and it's going to be increasingly about women who are small business owners. If we can ignite this part of it, which goes to your earlier point about this feminist recovery, I think we'll have a vibrant economy in the future. It will take a while, but the ability to have a small business community driven by women entrepreneurs will drive economic growth into the future.

I think we have to do more to create that, to enable and support those women entrepreneurs, especially those who are single mothers.

11:35 a.m.

Senior Director, Workforce Strategies and Inclusive Growth, Canadian Chamber of Commerce

Leah Nord

Could I add one minute to that, if that's okay?

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Marilyn Gladu

Sure.

11:35 a.m.

Senior Director, Workforce Strategies and Inclusive Growth, Canadian Chamber of Commerce

Leah Nord

I just want to add that, at the Canadian Chamber, we're tracking this. We've heard all the letters of the alphabet through this crisis, like V and W, but we're also tracking K-shaped economies, right? Those are sectors, but it's also those who own businesses.

What we do know about female entrepreneurs, as a generalization, is that they own smaller businesses and have fewer or no employees and are not always incorporated, which has meant that they often don't qualify for the emergency programming. That's why we've asked in the first instance to track that data, to look at it, to look at what's going on and to adjust accordingly.

Our council met last week. In addition to child care—and I know the government has taken steps in that respect—the other issue is always and continues to be access to capital for women entrepreneurs.

Thank you.

11:35 a.m.

Bloc

Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC

Thank you for adding this. I really appreciate it.

Many issues go beyond access to capital. I want to hear Ms. Vicky Smallman's thoughts on how we can promote the women's economy and work in the care sector.

How has COVID-19 affected women differently? You spoke of the mental load, so everything that comes on top of teleworking, such as education and housework. There are other factors as well. How does this affect their working lives?

You spoke of the importance of supporting women in non-traditional fields, of looking at the Pay Equity Act and of reviewing the entire employment insurance program, which is still too poorly adapted to the realities of women in 2020.

11:35 a.m.

National Director, Human Rights, Canadian Labour Congress

Vicky Smallman

Thanks.

I don't know if I am really the right person to talk about women entrepreneurs as my organization represents workers specifically.

I will say that the things we are advocating, in terms of certain key aspects of a feminist recovery, include quality public services that would benefit all Canadians, whether they are small business owners, single individual entrepreneurs, or workers—whether unionized or non-unionized.

When you have quality public services like child care, long-term care and home care, these things will actually help to relieve the burden of unpaid care work that women disproportionately share. I think we could start to think, really, about what the things are that our society needs to keep our economy running, those things that lay across the surface.

Public services and the care economy are both sources of jobs, but they're also economic generators. They're the things that we need to be able to function as a society and to care for those who are most vulnerable. I think those are the kinds of investments we would like to see, a conversation that we would like to see happen, and that's why we're calling for a commission.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Marilyn Gladu

Very good.

Now we'll go to Ms. Mathyssen for six minutes.

11:35 a.m.

NDP

Lindsay Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

Thank you.

Thanks to all of the witnesses today.

My first question is for both Ms. Wise and Ms. Smallman.

Before I really get started, I would like to point out, Ms. Wise, that your 3M location, your facility, is in my riding. Therefore, quite a lot of the workers—your employees—are my constituents.

I've heard from so many of them that they are truly overwhelmed right now. A lot of that—as parents—is because of the unaffordability of child care. You have said—rightfully so, and I think we all agree—that the full participation of women in the workforce isn't just a women's issue; it's that economic issue. It's about that stability that we bring forward, and obviously child care is a huge part of that.

I wouldn't mind hearing from both of you. Yes, the provision of spaces is key. How do we move forward in terms of the creation of those child care spaces but also the affordability? Also, what can we do to ensure, moving forward, that we get into a far more affordable—and maybe almost free—national, universal child care program?

11:40 a.m.

President, 3M Canada

Penny Wise

If you don't mind, I'll go first to answer your question.

When we talk about child care—and the chamber has been talking about child care—we have been thinking about it in terms of national leadership and how we act urgently and quickly, whether it's about costs, jurisdictional issues, options for parents or support for child care workers. Those can end up being longer-term approaches that we need to take.

What we're really focused on right now is the urgency, on moving as quickly as possible, on what can be done and what some of the recommendations are that can help make sure that we have the right capacity or that we can support through the crisis and move to that longer-term focus. How do we make sure that there are—maybe “redundant” isn't the right word to use—spaces to ensure that children are cared for? Also, in the opening statement, I talked about ensuring rapid testing and that we can move as quickly as possible to make sure we have those safe starts.

There is a long-term collective discussion that needs to happen—parents and business come into that—to build out what that long-term view looks like. Again, it should be really focused on how we deliver some of these short-term actions so that parents feel comfortable during the crisis and know they have spaces for their children, whether at school or within child care.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Marilyn Gladu

Ms. Smallman.

11:40 a.m.

National Director, Human Rights, Canadian Labour Congress

Vicky Smallman

I'm hoping that this committee has spoken with some of the child care organizations, like Child Care Now and the Childcare Resource and Research Unit. We have a long relationship with these groups. The child care movement as a whole, along with its allies, has spent decades coming up with a plan and a very solid vision for child care in Canada, and there's a clear consensus about what needs to be done. They're also the best people to talk about what needs to happen in the short term to be able to address the crisis that really has been exacerbated by this pandemic. What's really challenging and shocking right now is that in a time when we need quality child care the most, we have child care facilities shutting down because they don't have the resources they need to be able to provide the care that parents are addressing.

This is very much an issue that needs to be focused on to ensure that child care facilities have the resources and don't rely overly on parent fees, because parents cannot afford them. You can't provide quality child care on parents' fees alone. You need to see this as a quality public service. So I do think that the plan to establish a secretariat that would move forward on both a recovery plan and put together the building blocks for a long-term sustainable system that we can rely on.... This is not going to be the last crisis of this nature, and so we really need to be able to establish disaster-proof social services and public services like child care.

11:40 a.m.

NDP

Lindsay Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

Ms. Smallman, you talked a lot about the care economy. Long-term care, obviously right now, is a huge issue. My provincial counterpart in London—Fanshawe has put forward a time to care act provincially, and it's interesting that it proposes to set a minimal standard of four hours of care per day per resident. In order to meet that standard, they're estimating that the Province of Ontario alone has to hire about 10,000 more care workers, nurses, PSWs. We've heard about the poor pay, the bad working conditions, the amount of time that these workers are expected not only to work but also to give additional time because so many of them are women and fall into that category of unpaid care time. How could the federal government, investing in that care economy, in universal affordable access to long-term care programming, help that imbalanced gender equality situation and the pressure on women mainly?

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Marilyn Gladu

Unfortunately—

11:45 a.m.

NDP

Lindsay Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

Oh no.

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Marilyn Gladu

—you're out of time. So you'll have to wait for the answer in the second round.

For the second round, we'll start with Nelly Shin for five minutes.

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

Nelly Shin Conservative Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

Thank you so much for the work that you do and for being with us today.

Certainly, we live in a time that is very fluid. We don't know when the lockdowns are going to tighten or loosen. The repercussions on everyone, especially women who are vulnerable, are just daunting to think of. My question comes from the perception that in times when there is uncertainty, there needs to be openness to transitions and to going in different directions. When we look at businesses, some of them have retooled into other forms.... And then I'll get onto the issue of domestic violence if I get around to it.

But the question I'd like to ask is this: For women who want to retool their businesses to something else, what is out there to help them? I know that sometimes education is needed to get to that next place in revamping their business or their vision, and with that, if they have children and they are taking care of them, then obviously that needs care as well. Could you just speak to this question?

I'd like to ask Penny and Mr. McCreadie. Thank you.

11:45 a.m.

President, 3M Canada

Penny Wise

It is a really important piece to think about retooling and re-skilling for the future, which speaks to one of the key recommendations the chamber and the women's advocacy committee brought forward, which is really about the need for job pivots and upskilling and re-skilling. You said very eloquently that a lot of small women-owned businesses have retooled. They've been incredibly resilient. I think this aspect of retooling, re-skilling, upskilling and changing opportunities is part of the resiliency that we need to bring forward in Canada as part of the recovery.

We did, in the opening comments, talk about that as one of our key recommendations: encouraging women to pursue different educational opportunities and different careers, to pursue high growth areas or perhaps male-dominated areas or other opportunities where there is growth, and to think about a wider aperture of what they can accomplish. We also talked about making sure that we're encouraging young women, but also people who are currently in the workforce, to pursue that. What new opportunities can exist, and how do we pivot and re-skill on those?

11:45 a.m.

Senior Director, Workforce Strategies and Inclusive Growth, Canadian Chamber of Commerce

Leah Nord

I'm just going to add very quickly that the Canadian Chamber partnered with StatsCan on what's called the “Canadian Survey on Business Conditions”. We've been tracking the data since the beginning of the pandemic, and data will come out soon for September. We compare exact data, and so can StatsCan. It is the story of innovation throughout all of this by businesses, but particularly diversity-owned businesses—and that's across the track, as it includes women-owned businesses, indigenous- and immigrant-owned businesses, and the businesses of those with disabilities. The story from women from the start is that they had to shut down because many of these sectors from day one were locked down because they were not essential services. Again, women were disproportionately affected, but they have been able to innovate, to go online, to use external communications. There's a whole series of data on how any number of businesses have innovated, and I would encourage you as we move forward in the longer term to look at that data and to see data-driven...and see what we can do to respond. That would include consulting, having focus groups with women entrepreneurs as well. Do you want to know what they need? That's the best way to find out.

Thank you.

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

Nelly Shin Conservative Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

Thank you.

11:45 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer and Chief Investment Officer, AGF Management Limited

Kevin McCreadie

If I could have just one minute to add to that, I think this is a great opportunity. As we're all suffering through this—and women more than anyone—if we can encourage and incent women to innovate and to take the risk to create new ventures, new jobs, it will benefit the total economy. It really comes down to, how do we give grants to incent people to upskill and drive that future growth of small business ownership? At the same time, I think we have to help many of them with the child care issues, whether that be through tax deductions for women who are business owners. As we get through this, there are many ways and paths, but we have to be able to incent them to take that risk.

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

Nelly Shin Conservative Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

Thank you.

My next question is very similar to that, but applied to women who are experiencing domestic violence. It's very hard for women to leave their violent partners, and when they finally have the courage to do that, it is our job, I believe, as a society, to empower them to stay out of that cycle. In a pandemic like the one we're going through right now, where domestic violence is on the increase, what is a way that we can help women who are determined to leave their violent partners to transition into independence and find the work or education they need to transition out?

Thank you.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Marilyn Gladu

It's a great question, but you're out of time, so now we're going to go to Ms. Hutchings for five minutes.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

Gudie Hutchings Liberal Long Range Mountains, NL

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to thank all of the witnesses for being here today and for your passion for what you do. It comes forth in every comment you make.

I was a woman entrepreneur many years ago. It is hard. I was at it 20-odd years ago. When I see programs that Minister Ng, the minister for small business, has now topped up, such as the women entrepreneurship fund by $15 million, I wish some of it had been available years ago to help women in need.

We all know that child care is huge. It has always been an issue, but we have created 40,000 new spaces, and our $7.5 billion investment in early learning and child care is going to make a difference.

The other thing I want to focus on is what the last speaker mentioned, immigrant women. We know that national standards were promised in the throne speech. They're going to go a long way for safety and well-being of seniors, but we also need to help protect the workers, who are mainly women, as we all know, and significantly, many who are immigrant women.

We know there's a concern about how the pandemic is impacting immigrant women. This has pushed the debate on adverse socio-economic efforts. We all know that women have experienced more job losses.

I read about a study done at Carleton University, which conducted an in-depth survey of 50 highly skilled immigrant women in July and August of this year. It asked about their employment experience due to the pandemic in order to understand the gendered effects of the pandemic. These women had post-secondary education, and their work experiences were in a variety of professional fields.

Forty-one of the 50 were negatively impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic. They cited delays to the start of their careers, changes of career due to layoffs, decreased availability.... We all know that working from home has limited social supports.

What can the federal government do to alleviate these impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic on immigrant women and prevent their becoming long-term? What recommendations do you have to keep immigrant women safe and to protect their economic security? We need them as we grow our economy and put it back on its feet.

I'm going to put that out to all of you—Leah, Penny, Vicky, whoever wants to comment.