Status of Women Committee on March 19th, 2024

[Jennifer Jesty]

I am a big fan of the Everbridge system and not only because we use it. The land line was a major component for me. Also, the other big selling point for that is that you can record your own message, which means that the chief in the community can record his own voice in his own language before he sends the alert out. I think that's a very big, important part of it.

In thinking about this red dress alert system, I see it kind of dividing the country by province or by area, such as one in the Atlantic. If somebody goes missing in Halifax and we find out about it within minutes, we're sending that alert out to Halifax. Then, 12 hours later, we'll send it out to Nova Scotia, and 12 hours after that, we'll send it out to the entire Atlantic. Having said that, though, what we also have to take into consideration is that you can get from one end of this country to the other by plane within hours.

How do we know that these people are, in fact, missing and have been abducted, as opposed to just deciding that they don't want to be found, maybe even for their own safety? Those things have to be worked out on the ground with the people who have direct contact with the people who are going to be reported missing, and who utilize the system.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you very much. That absolutely shows why it has to be locally controlled.

What about what you said about how some people are amplifying the message through their own social media, through their own mechanisms? I'm very interested in hearing about that, because obviously you want to get to people where they are, and some people will not necessarily get a message unless it's through something that they use day to day. Can you talk more about how it's being amplified?

[Jennifer Jesty]

For most people now, as soon as we send out an alert, I would say that 80% of our messages are going out by the text only option. It's about sending a text message and sending an email. People are doing screenshots of it and putting it on their socials. Now it's even carried to non-indigenous communities. Some of our community members who have been missing have gone outside our community, so it's very important to get the message to non-indigenous members as well.

Every single time I send out an alert, I immediately go to social media to have a look and see if it's being shared, and it is. I also have the Unama'ki alert system page on Facebook. As soon as we send out an alert, I also post it on our Facebook page. That doesn't have a whole lot of followers just yet. It's gaining traction. Every month, we get a couple more. I love that they're taking the screenshot, that they're putting it on their socials and that it's reaching far more people.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

That's perfect. Thank you so much.

I'm sorry, but what was that called?

[Jennifer Jesty]

It's the UNSM emergency management Facebook page.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

I'm going to now pass the floor over to Andréanne Larouche.

Andréanne, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I thank both witnesses for being with us for the first hour of the meeting.

We are all keen to undertake this study. Organizations like Amnesty International have already denounced the situation of indigenous communities and, more specifically, indigenous women in Canada. Internationally, it remains a stain on Canada's flag.

It is sad to see that, when it comes to the majority of studies we conduct here at committee, indigenous women and girls are always affected disproportionately. We can come back to it, but we did recently conduct a study on human trafficking in Canada, where women and girls are also overrepresented. It's rather troubling. The committee travelled to Vancouver and Halifax last year, and it was troubling to hear the numbers on this subject.

Ms. Varley, you represent a friendship centre, and I think rural and remote communities are impacted. How can these rural and remote communities, as well as indigenous people, receive an alert like the red dress alert?

I wonder if this alert could actually reach every community. I'm thinking specifically of remote regions, where access to communication networks is uneven. I invite Ms. Varley to answer the question, but I also invite you to answer it afterwards, Ms. Jesty.

[Leslie Varley]

Absolutely, there is unequal access, which is why I think we still need the old-fashioned billboard model, whereby people are driving down Highway 16, the Highway of Tears, and can see those alerts flash up on those billboards.

For sure, some of the communities are lacking high-speed Internet access. There is a commitment to ensure the entire province is connected, so hopefully that's not going to be a problem for very long, but we do need a variety of applications.

We've already connected indigenous people on Facebook, as I said. We all know each other. We can put up those missing notices really quickly, as Jennifer described, but we also need some older-fashioned communication models, which is why I'm suggesting the billboards in the northern and more rural areas of the province.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Ms. Varley, I'd like to ask you a question related to the one I asked previously.

Once again, if you want to add something related to your own experience, Ms. Jesty, please do not hesitate to do so.

Last year, while the Standing Committee on the Status of Women was travelling, we met with members of an organization I had already encountered during a meeting in Winnipeg on the issue of human trafficking. This organization launched to the #NotInMyCity initiative. It uses conventional display methods in busy areas, such as stations and airports, as well as communication networks, which can mean uneven access in rural areas.

Have you communicated with members of this organization?

[Leslie Varley]

I'm not familiar with it.

[Jennifer Jesty]

I'm not familiar with it either.

Nonetheless, you mentioned that indigenous women are overrepresented in this area. What's sad about that comment is that this is the only area in which indigenous women are overrepresented, and that's a very unfortunate situation to be in.

I absolutely agree with you. We need to have a form of communication to reach northern areas. That's why using our Everbridge platform was so important to us so that we were able to reach that land line.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

You are correct, Ms. Jesty.

I did specify that you could answer my question, which you did very well.

You talked about the link with reconciliation. I completely understand your point of view, according to which the alert system must be managed by and for you. You explained it well.

Do you think your alert system might have influenced police response regarding the disappearances and murders of these women and girls?

Could this have been a significant way of raising awareness about their safety?

[Jennifer Jesty]

Yes. Thank you.

I believe they are fully aware. Being proactive about it is a different question.

We had an indigenous woman go missing. It was reported by an off-reserve organization. She didn't show up for curfew. They immediately phoned the police—this was at 10 o'clock at night—to say, “Hey, she didn't show up for curfew.” The police chose not to request an alert to be sent out by me, and she was found dead the next morning.

Would my alert have saved her life? Maybe, maybe not, but they didn't even give me a chance.

Yes, there needs to be more work with the police organizations to get them on board and to get them to be a lot more proactive.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much, Jennifer, for that testimony. I think we're all probably dropping our jaws.

I'm now going to move it over to Bonita for six minutes.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you so much.

I appreciate the witnesses today. I know this is a difficult topic, but it's one that you're both working on. I appreciate you both so much.

I'm going to start with Ms. Varley. I want to talk a bit about the structural factors that we need to address alongside the red dress alert.

My colleague from the NDP, Leah Gazan, when she brought this motion forward and wanted to do this study, recognized that there are decades of insufficient action from all levels of government that have failed to address the effects of the residential school genocide.

I would really like to hear from you about some of those structural factors that we need to address in government, and even in policing, that I heard today. What are those structural things that we can do alongside the alert that's needed and is working, as Ms. Jesty mentioned, in her community?

[Leslie Varley]

I think the important structural thing you're talking about is the systemic racism that exists in this country. We are under the only race-based act in the western world that we know of as indigenous people—the Indian Act—so that is something we have to contend with.

One of the issues Jennifer suggested was that the police still have the discretion to decide whether or not they are going to enact an alert system, support it or call her. The reason they don't is that they have that discretion. When we look behind the reasons for why they're not calling, they go back to systemic racism and the ideologies we're raised with as Canadians about indigenous people and the fact that we're undeserving, or maybe we're party girls and not deserving. They go back to us not being fully human.

All of these old colonial ideologies about indigenous people still exist in this country everywhere, in every service that we're trying to access. Therefore, I think the most important thing for us to address, alongside providing these safeties, is socializing Canadians to understand that we are indeed human as indigenous people, and to start working with us to dismantle these racist structures that are in existence.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you so much.

Before I move on to ask Ms. Jesty this same question, I have a follow-up question to you.

I know that you work in the aboriginal friendship centres. Concerning the community that's built through these friendship centres, how can the federal government—and this is a federal committee—learn from the way that community comes together in the aboriginal friendship centres and the way that community interacts in so much less of an institutional way? Is there something that the federal government should take away from that model that the federal government needs to learn and to do business in a different way that you could share? I know it's a big question, but is there anything that comes into your mind?

[Leslie Varley]

It is a big question, and we could spend a lot of time on it, but what I think I want to say is that both federal and provincial governments could put the trust in us. We see Jennifer's program operating really effectively with very few funds, and she's done it on her own without asking for permission. In most cases, we do have to ask for permission.

One of the challenges that we have is that, when there's a woman who has gone missing, it's really hard to get funds out to that agency, that community or that family so that they can immediately set up a search site, say, along the Highway of Tears. It's really challenging, but from an indigenous community within friendship centres, within first nations and within Métis organizations, it's quite easy for us to get that money out to those organizations. Supporting us and trusting us to get that funding out to search groups and communities as and when it's needed and with immediacy is really key. I think that's something that the government can learn from and support us to provide those services.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you so much.

Ms. Jesty, I wonder if you wouldn't mind just expanding a little bit on the racism and some of the barriers that you run into when dealing with police or any other government institutions around your alert system.

[Jennifer Jesty]

To address your first question asking what can government do, I think the most important thing—and this doesn't just apply to government; it applies to every person—is inclusion. It's a very simple, one-word answer, inclusion.

In my opening statement, I said that I was the first firefighter and the first paramedic. Why am I the first? Why did it happen in 2020 when I was the first? Here we are in 2024, and nobody has come behind me. Why is that? It's inclusion. It's because we're not included, that's why. It's inclusion in proceedings, in idealism and in moving forward in any manner, even in staff. How many indigenous people are employed within non-indigenous organizations? Inclusion is incredibly important.

Since I first started this alert system, believe me, police organizations are pretty sick of seeing my face and hearing my name, because I won't give up. I won't give up until it gets to the point where they are calling me without hesitation.

To answer your question, yes, I have run into several barriers along the way. I was even asked, “Do you know how bad it will look on us if we send out an alert through your system before we send out the provincial alert?” I said, “Okay, I hear that public safety is not as important to you as your reputation”. That's how it sounded to me.

Yes, we do still deal with that on the daily.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much, Jennifer.

We're now going to go into our second round.

Anna, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to both witnesses. This is something really important that we need to deal with that's gone on long enough. I admire your spirit and your strength, and I applaud you for doing what you're doing.

Before I ask my question and because we have a male here, Marc, I want to recognize you because today is San Giuseppe Day, it's Father's Day in Italy. Happy Father's Day, Marc.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Jennifer, I have a couple of questions for you, and then I'm going to ask a question of Ms. Varley.

You talked about the mass shooting in Nova Scotia and how it rocked the entire province, especially because there was no alert system in place at the time and many lives were lost. How do you see this getting out to people who aren't subscribers in the future? I know you mentioned Facebook and people posting it.

[Jennifer Jesty]

Right. Although our alert system is run by us and for us, we do have non-indigenous people signing up for the system. Why is that? It's because they're not getting the information they require anywhere else. They see that our system is successful, that we're delivering information in a timely fashion and that we're getting it out to them quickly.

I believe every single Nova Scotian has some form of PTSD regarding the Portapique incident. Therefore, people are information-hungry. They want to know more information for their own personal safety. If our alert system is attracting non-indigenous people, that's wonderful. I welcome them with open arms.