Status of Women Committee on March 21st, 2024

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

You make a good point, that often when indigenous people are kidnapped, they're not kept in the same spot. They're moved off. They're moved off to a different province or a different part of the country, so it makes sense that this is national in scope.

On the idea of Jennifer's red dress alert in Nova Scotia, people sign up for it. Do you see this is as being something that goes to everyone's cellphone or something that people sign up to receive? She got lots of non-indigenous allies signed up, but these are people who said, “Yes, I want to know, and I want to help when someone goes missing.” I think that's a big difference with the Amber alert system we have now. Would you support something like that?

The other thing about having people sign up is that you get their land lines if they don't have cellphones. You can reach people in remote areas other ways, not just by trying to send messages to cellphones. Maybe you can reflect on that.

[Lisa Cooper]

I think that's a great system.

In P.E.I., we don't have a lot of sex trafficking. It's more couch surfing and taking advantage of homeless women. However, sex trafficking is there, and they do move them quickly from province to province, so I think, if you were to set up a system like that....

Look at Idle No More and how quickly that started with some youth and then went Canada-wide, the whole Idle No More movement. Look how many people are involved, and they're still talking about it. If you look at Black Lives Matter, social media platforms nowadays are the way to go if you're trying to share information. I don't think it would be hard to set something up where people can join in on the talk, join in on the discussion and do a quick check. There might be somebody missing on P.E.I.. Anyone might want to share their picture or might want to share this.

I think there also needs to be a lot of consultation and discussion around that, because there are privacy acts that I think you need to be careful of, and I think you need to be careful of someone's privacy if they don't want to be found.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thanks so much.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

That's what I was going to say. There are some people who don't want to be found for good reasons.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much.

Thanks for that, Lisa.

We're going to Andréanne Larouche for the next six minutes.

Go ahead, Andréanne.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I'm going to take my time, because I want to thank the witnesses, Jessica Savoy and Lisa Cooper, who are very interesting.

I'm a little shocked every time I speak on this issue. It boggles my mind that we're talking about a red dress alert in 2024. I can't believe that so many indigenous women and girls are victims of so much violence. It shocks me, but I'll get my act together.

I'll now ask you some questions, Ms. Savoy and Ms. Cooper. I invite both of you to answer the first one. To make it simple, let's say that Ms. Cooper can answer first.

I like to use international initiatives on a lot of things. We can learn from them and use them to prepare our reports here in committee.

Some states in the United States have already implemented this alert system for missing indigenous women and girls, including California, Colorado and Washington state, and there are various criteria for triggering an alert. For example, there's the number of days that have passed since a person disappeared and the belief that the person is in danger. My colleague Mrs. Vien raised the issue of criteria, but I'd like you to come back to that.

Have you looked at how the criteria have been established elsewhere in the world? I mentioned the United States, but if you know of any interesting initiatives in other countries, feel free to talk about them.

[Lisa Cooper]

I would have to do some research on that.

For me on P.E.I.—I can only speak of my experience—when there's a missing person, they do put an alert out. It kind of goes to all our phones and there is an alert sound that comes. It says that there's a missing youth and please contact.... It doesn't have to necessarily be a murdered person. It could be a missing person. It could be somebody of interest that they're looking for. It is an alert sound that comes on our phones.

We go onto it, and it says they're looking for this person and you can notify.... Sometimes it could be a runaway who they later say has been found.

When you're looking at something like an Amber alert or a red dress alert, it can be the same concept, especially when you're looking at the most vulnerable who are homeless and living on the streets or couch surfing. They are the most vulnerable. If they're not contacting their family on a regular basis.... It took 10 days before this alert went.

We are now prepared for any alert or anything that's a red flag in our community. For indigenous women who are homeless and who we work with among the tent city, if we don't see them in the next day or two or three days—we have mobile teams out—we sound the alert within our organization. Then we start working with the police to sound that alert in the higher sense of putting it out to the province.

Again, talking to organizations that actually do the frontline work is realistic. There's no disrespect. There's the theoretical model. I'm not going to read off the MMIWG report—I spent three years creating that—and the MMIWG action plans. The theoretical models just don't work in most places. Each community has to develop a model that works for their community.

How impacted is the community? How involved is the community? How far-reaching is the community?

On P.E.I., we have three zones—Prince, Kings and Queens counties—so we can reach the whole island. Mine's a model that fits P.E.I., but I think each indigenous community has to fit its own model into this. I don't think we can put it into being a check-box thing. It's basically drawn from the community.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Ms. Savoy, I saw you nodding your head. Do you have anything to add about the experience of other countries in terms of criteria?

[Jessica Savoy]

Thank you for your question. I know there was another question asked, and I would like to build on what was already said.

However, in regard to criteria or other supports that could be extended, I just want to give an example of something that had been done to address missing and murdered indigenous women and girls in British Columbia. As a commitment to truth and reconciliation, Rogers Communications placed three towers along Highway 16.

Highway 16 is known as the “Highway of Tears” due to the high number of indigenous women and girls reported missing from the highway. I just want to make note of that.

Also, around other supports that could be extended, there was a conversation or a question asked about how we reach communities that may not have access to cellphones or that type of technology. I feel like we really need to be looking at the intersectionality of overlapping oppressions that impact our communities and, more so, our indigenous women and girls.

I think there are lots of supports that can be extended, and through that what is really needed are the human, technological and fiscal capacities within our communities to address the issues.

Non-status and off-reserve communities have felt the greatest impact of these colonial policies. I think to ensure that we are keeping our communities safe, there need to be more measures in regard to economic, social, cultural and political advancement within our communities to address the ongoing violence that our indigenous women and girls and two-spirit and gender-diverse people are facing.

I'm not sure if that answers your question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Yes, that's perfect. Thank you.

Actually, I have to push over to the next person.

Thank you so much, Andréanne.

I'm going to pass over to Leah Gazan for six minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much to the witnesses. I'm so happy to have you here.

I just want to follow up.

I know, Ms. Cooper, that you spoke about alerts, and one of the questions was about being able to sign up for them. I know that in the consultations one of the concerns that were brought up was that violence against indigenous women and girls has been so normalized. We know that in calls for justice 9.1 to 9.11, with policing in society, the concern is that by making it optional, people will choose not to sign up on a wide scale.

What do you think of that analysis?

I have a second very quick question for you, because I'd like to make sure I have time for Ms. Savoy as well. It sounds like yours is community-led. I would assume it's also women-led. Why is that important? Is it women-led, and why is it important that it's community-led prior to going into existing systems that seem to be failing?

[Lisa Cooper]

Those are really good questions.

I think that people have to have a choice. You can't force people to sign up. You can do a lot around the education of why it's important to sign up and do a lot of promotion out there and campaigns on why it's important to sign up, but ultimately you can't force people to sign up. Really, it's their choice.

For the second question, we have a number of programs. I have over 60 staff and 30 programs, so we not only address missing and murdered indigenous women and girls, but missing and murdered indigenous men and boys. We use CAP's Walking in Her Moccasins model to work with men, because if we're going to keep our women safe, we have to ensure that men provide the support and advocacy for women and women's groups as well. We want to show our males how to be a healthy male. A lot of that has been taken away as a result of colonialism, as the role of the gatherer of food and bringing home the food, and the warm, protecting woman has been changed through residential schools and the Sixties Scoop.

Now we're looking at redefining the man's role in the family, so I think they go nicely in partnership.

Our missing and murdered indigenous women and girls program has a committee that is all girls. If we have a session, we also do MMIWG with MMIMB as well, so we combine the two in support. Our action plan is built directly from the community up, so it goes out to our community and it does input.

We understand, through Summer Kneebone's experience, what needed to get done. We're still dealing with that, even though it was in 2023, because it still takes time to get through the courts. The families want answers now. They want to understand now, and they're angry.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much.

Ms. Savoy, yours is a very critical voice. You're clearly a leader in this area, but you are also providing a youth perspective. You've spoken a lot about systemic violence, especially in policing. I want you to expand on that more.

What would that oversight look like going forward, considering the current system and current relationships? What's the solution to that?

[Jessica Savoy]

Thank you for your question.

With regard to the relationship between police forces, the justice system and indigenous peoples.... Oftentimes, over different jurisdictions, we see the increase of the budget for different police services. I think what is really needed is an allocation of wraparound services for our families. We need to be able to advance the social and economic gaps that are related to addressing ongoing violence against indigenous women, girls and two-spirit people.

I hope that answered your question.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Yes, it did.

In the city I'm from, Winnipeg, we've actually had six deaths that involved police in past three months. A couple were related to mental health.

Looking at prevention, because, of course, we're talking about the red dress alert.... We never want to have to issue one, because people should be safe. Do you think having more mental health supports in place and safe places for people to go to would help prevent some of the vulnerabilities currently in place?

[Jessica Savoy]

Without a doubt.

Culture and access to culture are preventative measures. We need more preventative measures, rather than reactionary measures. Definitely, we need more mental health services, for sure.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Do wraparound supports, for you, come before a red dress alert or after a red dress alert?

[Jessica Savoy]

I think it's womb to tomb. We need those wraparound services for our families, from the moment of conception until, hopefully, a good way to end or whatever happens.

Yes, we need wraparound services for our families—it's so dire—before a red dress alert happens.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much.

I have 10 seconds, but I love that “womb to tomb”. It's pretty powerful.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thanks very much.

Because of our time, what I am going to do is drop it down to four minutes, four minutes, two minutes and two minutes.

I am going to pass the floor over to Michelle. You have the floor for four minutes.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Is it not your turn?

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Anna, you have the floor for four minutes.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to both of the witnesses. That was some very powerful information for us.

I'd like to ask Jessica a question. I'm looking into the “Looking Out for Each Other” project. It's an amazing project that's getting the community involved.

My question for you is how you feel about both the indigenous police and the RCMP working closer together. The reason I ask this question is that we, the status of women committee, did a tour last year and one of the things I learned, which I wasn't aware of before, is that people will kidnap children or women and take them across the country before you know it.

If we were to work together, do you think that would help prevent some of these situations, Jessica?

[Jessica Savoy]

Thank you very much for your question.

I think I mentioned before that there is an intersectionality of overlapping oppression facing our communities. I believe there needs to be a partnership between all sectors—whether it's with justice, health care or child welfare—and indigenous peoples. It needs to be indigenous-led, but, of course, because the federal government has a fiduciary responsibility for status, non-status, Métis and Inuit peoples, that underlying support needs to be there.

Definitely, without a doubt, different sectors, whether they be justice or others, need to be working with indigenous communities.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

How do we educate our youth? How do—