Status of Women Committee on April 9th, 2024

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much for that.

Finally, you spoke about a local and national command centre with paid staff.

Could you expand on that for us?

[Mitch Bourbonniere]

Right now, it feels like we're kind of on our own. It's really grassroots. It's all done by volunteerism and networking.

Families reach out to our community—the helping community that I belong to in the inner city of Winnipeg. People don't reach out to the police. They don't reach out to first responders. They don't reach out to anybody but us for wellness checks, for domestic violence, for missing children, and for missing and murdered indigenous women and girls. They reach out to us. We feel like we're kind of on our own and we're trying to work with each other locally.

It would be so good to have a place, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, that we could call and say, “Help us, guide us, and support us. What's happening? Give us your expertise.”

Those command centres would be run by indigenous women who have lived experience in this topic.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much, Mitch.

I feel like I'm cutting off Leah's brother, so I have to be extra cautious on this one; we might have to discuss this after.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much for your testimony.

We're now going into our next round. It's five minutes, five minutes, two and a half, and then two and a half.

I'll pass the floor over to Dominique for five minutes.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Hello and thank you to all the witnesses for your testimony.

Thank you for your concern, Mr. Bourbonniere. What you described gave us chills. I took a lot of notes. You have a vision of what your services should be. Moreover, your testimony is based on compelling experience. Thank you for your testimony this morning.

Ms. Étienne, hello and welcome to the committee.

I do not have much time so I will get straight to the point.

Your point of view is quite unusual compared to the testimony we have heard so far. I am not saying the other witnesses have been closed, but they are certainly concerned. You are open to working with police officers, police groups and police chiefs. Up until now, we have heard that including police officers in this operation could make victims more reluctant to report issues, given what indigenous communities and women have experienced with police services. Even Ms. Augustine noted that concern.

Have I understood your position correctly? You are saying the police have a role to play and must be included in the process; they have to be involved. Would you go so far as to say that it should be managed by the police, like an amber alert, or, as other stakeholders have said, do you think that indigenous women, groups and communities should manage the process?

[Marjolaine Étienne]

The disappearance of indigenous women and girls is everyone's business. I think cooperation is needed between governments, community organizations and law enforcement. We all have a role to play in addressing the problem. The indigenous community, along with existing services, must indeed be consulted. If the goal is to offer the best services possible to protect our women and young girls if they go missing, people need to mobilize around the issue. We need a seamless response process, without any cracks between the first response action and the third response action. We need continuity so the response process serves to locate the missing person quickly.

We all have to work very closely together and consult them, talk about this initiative, and get them involved early on because it really is a question of awareness. We also have to be able to develop specific criteria for the process. In my opinion, we need an approach that will create a system that can meet the real needs of indigenous women.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Ms. Étienne, there is tremendous mistrust of police services, as you know, and you probably hear that, as we do. As to including the police, it does not look very good.

Do you also hear that from indigenous groups? That is what we have heard here at the committee.

[Marjolaine Étienne]

Just recently, I spoke with the police chief, the director and president of the Association of First Nation Police Directors: they are concerned as well. They too want to be able to help missing indigenous women and girls; they too are aware...

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

So you think everyone wants to fix the problem.

[Marjolaine Étienne]

That is why I said Quebec is different; there is concern.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Okay.

Ms. Étienne, what should the red dress alert system look like? Is the amber alert system a good example? Earlier you mentioned criteria, the general public and timelines to begin a search. How do you see it?

The chair might have to interrupt you, in which case I would ask you and your team to think about it and send us your answers in writing.

In practical terms, what is your vision of how the red dress alert would work?

I hear the timer. Please send us your answer in writing, Ms. Étienne.

[Marjolaine Étienne]

Okay.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you very much, Ms. Étienne. We do not have much time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thanks so much.

I'm now going to pass it over to Lisa.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to all of our witnesses today. You've all given us a lot to think about and really valuable insight.

I would like to start with Leah's brother, Mitch Bourbonniere.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Mitch, I have to tell you how impactful your testimony has been today. We've learned a lot from you.

I would like to go back. In your opening statement, you talked about how you help get men and boys away from these ideas of toxic masculinity. You tap into the horror of the little boy who saw his mother getting hurt until that behaviour became normalized.

I think that typically and historically in indigenous communities people did think of women as life-givers and matriarchs.

I'd like to hear more about your work and how we tap into the horror of that little boy. How do we start changing this toxic masculinity?

What can we learn from you to take to other cultures? That's what I am asking.

[Mitch Bourbonniere]

Thank you.

I am also cognizant that I don't want to take up too much air time on this panel in terms of being a male and taking up space. I am really looking forward to hearing from my other panellists as well.

Just to quickly answer the question, in Winnipeg and in Manitoba, it has been organic. It's happening. It's happening in our northern communities. I'm getting all kinds of inquiries to travel to meet with communities and to meet with the women in terms of helping the men find a vehicle for healing.

It's definitely happening in Manitoba.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you very much.

We know that in order to address gender-based violence...it's not a women's problem and it can't be just women trying to solve it. We need to bring men and boys into the conversation. Thank you for doing that work.

I want to go back to your idea about the 24-7 command centre, but maybe I'll direct my question to Madam Augustine.

This is exactly what we're trying to do on this committee. It's trying to decide exactly how this red dress alert will be rolled out, what it should look like and who should administer it.

I'd like to know more about your idea of its administration. If we had an Amber alert system.... It's run by The Weather Network—Pelmorex—right now, but The Weather Network doesn't decide who sends out the alert. It just has the platform. It's the Amber alert platform and then they can make it however they want.

Maybe it goes directly to a 24-7 command centre staffed by indigenous women and they're the ones who make the decision as to whether or not a red dress alert goes out, but it can still be on the platform that was created for the Amber alert system.

Maybe you could just talk about how you envision this working because it's exactly what we're trying to get to here.

[Chief Lorraine Augustine]

I envision its being 24-7, obviously. I think the administration of whatever platform we use has to ensure that it's getting out there, similar to the Amber alert. That's really important.

The command centre, as I said before, has to be run by indigenous people. It has to be 24-7, and it also has to have guidelines and be there for the family to report that. If it's not indigenous led, a lot of times our women, even our families, don't want to call and report because, if they say its an indigenous woman, they're not going to get the reaction they want.

It does have to be a 24-7 command centre.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Do you see this going out nationally or locally?

[Chief Lorraine Augustine]

It has to be national right across the board. Every single province has to be on board with it; otherwise, it's not going to work.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

The Weather Network, Pelmorex, I know can also have it set up any way we want. If it's the indigenous women's task force that decides if it goes out, they can decide if it's an intrusive alarm that wakes people up in the middle of the night. They can decide if the alarm only goes to a small area of the country.

[Chief Lorraine Augustine]

It should be the administrator who determines that.