Status of Women Committee on April 11th, 2024

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Okay, thank you.

When you're looking at the Anishinabek police force, the OPP and the municipal police, can you explain your recommendations?

When you talk about the three tiers, I'm assuming you're talking about those zone alerts. There's tier one. We talked about tier two, which is maybe what Sandra from Nova Scotia talked about. Then there's tier three for national alerts.

Can you explain a bit more about your recommendations along that line so the federal government could work?

My next question after that is about the role of the province in all of this.

[Det Clee Lieverse]

Yes, I think you had it basically correct. They're using the zone alerts or the community alerts at the lowest level and using Pelmorex, the subscription-based model that could be enacted in.... I'm sorry. It's not Pelmorex. It's the Everbridge subscription-based model that communities could have set up. For example, Sudbury does use the Everbridge system for our greater Sudbury alerts. There are mines all around here. If you want to know about a mine disaster, you sign up for that Sudbury alert.

When we get to the level where there is that threat of serious bodily harm, death or foul play for the indigenous female, by using a Weather Network-style or Amber alert-style blast out we could target that, like they do with the piloted grey alerts in Quebec, to localities or larger regions, whether it be northeastern Ontario, northern Ontario in general or the province, and then expanding out from there.

Also, keep that in mind even within Ontario, if you're in Ottawa, that's not far away. If you're in Kenora.... I know that Kenora and Winnipeg have a lot of interactions when it comes to missing parties, human trafficking and travel of indigenous women for sure—

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

My time is up.

If you are dealing with men and boys as part of your advisory, can you send that over to the committee as far as any recommendations are concerned? We had our spirit brother colleague here, Mitch Bourbonniere, who talked about how to involve men and boys. If there's anything the Sudbury regional police are doing with the community on that for men and boys, please share it with the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much. It's a great request.

Andréanne, you have six minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you to both witnesses for being here today.

First, I will turn to you, Mr. Lieverse. In your opening remarks, you talked about the risk of alert fatigue. You stressed the importance of issuing these alerts, but I would like you to tell us a little more about what could be done to avoid the risk of alert fatigue among the public.

[Det Clee Lieverse]

There are a couple of things we can do in order to prevent what we've coined “alert fatigue”.

The first is having thresholds. For example, we have in Sudbury in the neighbourhood of 600 missing indigenous persons reported every year. Most of those investigations are concluded swiftly, with no media releases and with no need to publicize that person's information—photo, name, that kind of thing. We need to have a threshold. Until that investigation reaches a threshold, we don't put out the alert. As I said, if we're going to blast something out, whether we're looking at something where foul play, human trafficking, severe bodily harm or death is involved, we're not going to blast everything out to the public—everybody of the public, I should say.

The other one is being targeted. If there's no reason to send to or there's no nexus to another city, then we're keeping it local, so that Thunder Bay isn't getting the notifications from Ottawa unless there is some sort of a nexus between the two.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

That's similar to what you said in your opening remarks about risk factors. You can follow up on that afterwards if you wish.

We understand the importance of working on a continuum. The alert is not a magic wand that will solve everything. We are really hearing about a continuum of services that goes from education to ways of detecting when someone is a victim, for example. The alert would be at that level.

Then we hear about having the legislative tools to intervene, that is, ensuring that the laws improve and that the justice system can deal with the criminals responsible for these alerts. In other cases, the follow-up is support. Some cases do not fall within the purview of the legal system and instead require that we support people in a kind of rehabilitation. In short, it is important to consider these alerts in the context of a continuum of services.

In your opening remarks, you talked about the importance of following up on the alert, of having tools for that purpose.

I wonder if you could elaborate on the continuum and what tools you would need.

[Det Clee Lieverse]

A full range of services would obviously begin before we would have the need for this red dress alert. That comes from strengthening our child welfare laws in relation to protecting the at-risk youth from predators, as well as providing additional funding to the child welfare agencies. I don't think I have to say that there is an overrepresentation of children in out-of-home care in these situations of human trafficking, or when they have gone missing. It's having additional resources available for those services to ensure the kids are getting the proper treatments from whatever trauma they've suffered—the substance abuse issues, lack of housing, etc. There is such a wide spectrum of issues that needs to be addressed to prevent these young girls from going missing.

On after care, when it's a criminal matter, when there are charges laid, I found that while we have a great system in place, obviously additional funding and resources are needed throughout whatever local victims' services are available. For example, here in Sudbury we have Sudbury victim services. They do a fantastic job, but funding is always an issue.

For example, I was in court all week with a young girl, and we were able to lay charges against someone who was luring her and grooming her into trafficking. That matter went on for two years, and she had $38 of funding left. The standards aren't quite where they need to be as far as that goes. The services have to be available locally.

We're lucky here in Sudbury. We have great services here, but in Pikangikum, they might not. That needs to be available at home.

Did I answer your question?

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Yes, absolutely, Mr. Lieverse.

As you say, it is also important to be able to build relationships. You talked about models that exist elsewhere, such as the one in Nova Scotia, which you studied. There may be other models in the United States, where some states have similar alerts, such as California, I believe. It's important to keep abreast of what is happening elsewhere and to learn from it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you very much.

I'm now going to pass it over to Leah Gazan.

Leah, you have six minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much, Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here today.

I want to be very clear that my questions are in no way indicative of your intent, or you, personally. However, in terms of the legacy of policing with indigenous peoples in Canada, with a history of either over-policing or under-policing, I would say it is under-policing in the cases of some murdered and missing indigenous women and girls and the 2SLGBTQQIA+ community. The National Inquiry into Murdered and Missing Indigenous Women and Girls calls for justice 9.1 to 9.11 made specific calls for justice.

I'm wondering which calls for justice your police agency has completed to date.

I have limited time.

[Det Clee Lieverse]

Darrell, I'll leave that one to you.

[Cst Darrell Rivers]

I haven't read all of them, personally, but I will say that since the late 1990s, Sudbury police has played an active role in training our officers with the help of community so that we don't run into those situations here, within the city of Greater Sudbury.

All of our new recruits come with me. They spend three days with me and continue ongoing cultural awareness training and trauma-informed training for their entire career, within the—

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you very much. I have limited time.

I find that deeply troubling, because the national inquiry came out over four years ago. You can see my little pamphlet book here. It's probably less than a one-minute read. I think that's indicative of why the relationship continues to be tarnished. It's that and the direct police violence against indigenous women. I'm going to give you two examples.

In northern Manitoba—it was certainly not your police department—police took an indigenous woman home with the permission of the sergeant in charge who said, “You arrested her; you can do whatever the F you want to do” with her. That's one very extreme example.

In Winnipeg, we had the head of the police board come out saying that they were unable to search the landfill. This was announced by the current chief of police. Then we found out that they can. The federal government just provided $20 million for it.

These calls for justice are very specific. Because you haven't read them, call for justice 9.1 says:

We call on all police services and justice system actors to acknowledge that the historical and current relationship between Indigenous women, girls, and 2SLGBTQQIA people and the justice system has been largely defined by colonialism, racism, bias, discrimination....

One thing they call for is community oversight, particularly by indigenous peoples, including indigenous women. Do you currently have oversight of your police services by and for indigenous people, which includes indigenous women, in response to this violence?

[Cst Darrell Rivers]

We actively utilize our indigenous advisory committee. They are members of the family information liaison unit. A lot of indigenous women sit and have sat on this advisory council since its inception.

We are a larger service than others in northern Ontario. As for missing persons investigations, we have a dedicated detective. I focus on training, youth programs and building relationships within the community.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Call for justice 9.7 calls upon “police services to partner with front-line organizations that work in service delivery, safety, and harm reduction for Indigenous women, girls, and 2SLGBTQQIA people to expand and strengthen police services delivery.”

What organizations are you currently partnered with?

[Cst Darrell Rivers]

We partner with the N'Swakamok Native Friendship Centre and the Shkagamik-Kwe Health Centre.

We have acronyms, and I'm trying to remember the full name of the program. There's the Métis Nation, Compass child and family services and all of the indigenous child welfare agencies. There are numerous outreach programs—

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I'm sorry. I'm talking about organizations that work specifically with indigenous women and girls and 2SLGBTQQIA+. I am asking on that specifically, because often the voices of families and people who are directly impacted are excluded from these tables. It's really critical to differentiate between the two. Perhaps you could give us a list of the ones that are directly related to that.

The other—

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Your six minutes are over. We'll get back to you, though.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much.

We're now going into our second round. It will be minutes of five, five, two and a half and two and a half. We'll be able to finish up that round with four minutes and four minutes.

I'm going to start off the first five minutes with Anna.

Anna, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to both of the witnesses for being here.

I'm going to direct my first question to police officer Darrell Rivers.

You stated that you work with the chiefs of 110 first nations in northern Ontario. As the indigenous liaison officer, it seems that you have good relationships with the first nations chiefs and the community. It sounds like you're doing a great job training all of the other police officers.

From your experience, how can your best practices work with other areas in the province and maybe across the country to ensure that as a nation we're working together to protect all indigenous women?

[Cst Darrell Rivers]

Just to clarify, there are 22 first nations within a two-hour drive of Sudbury. We work directly with two first nations communities within our jurisdiction, Atikameksheng Anishnawbek and Wahnapitae First Nation. We have a great working relationship directly with the chiefs.

As for working with counterparts in my position across the province, we are organizing our inaugural conference for indigenous liaison officers this coming May. We would like to share our experiences on how we have built relationships within the indigenous community, within Sudbury. We would like to share our programs and challenges and to come up with solutions so that we can assist other services across the province and help further their goals for building and rebuilding relationships.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Can you explain to the group here what one of your best practices is when you are forming these relationships? What is something that you do to reach out?

[Cst Darrell Rivers]

One of our youth programs.... Again, my focus is youth. I do a lot of programming for that. One of the longest running programs we have is the MKWA ride-along program where we engage indigenous high school students. They learn about policing and do a couple of ride-alongs, and then we bring in the elders.

Another program that we recently started—we'll be in our fourth year—is a moose harvest program. We bring in youth from the welfare agencies for seven sessions throughout the summer, and there we provide cultural knowledge. We partner with the schools. They get high school credit. This year, we're incorporating a restorative justice component.

The big goal for the officers who volunteer for these programs is to have the youth see the officers out of their uniforms and learn that we are people too, that we are not officers all the time.

Those are just two of the several programs that we have here.