Evidence of meeting #108 for Status of Women in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was control.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
It's very important.
Ms. Pigeau, very quickly I want to go back to the idea of criminalization, because, of course, that would require law enforcement, and I know that the relationship between indigenous peoples and Métis peoples and law enforcement is sometimes one of distrust. Do you think that criminalization might aggravate that relationship with the police?
Director of Intergovernmental Relations, Women of the Métis Nation
I do think that historical trauma and that relationship with policing will be impacted by criminalization. There's already an existing fear that women and gender diverse folks have, so when police intervene in probably one of the most difficult scenarios in a woman's or a gender-diverse person's experience, they will be leery of disclosing everything.
When you talk about a pattern of coercive behaviour, how can we get one, two, five, 10 or 50 years of experience with an abuser out in the very short scenario that the police officer is intervening in? I do think that the relationship will complicate that further in allowing a woman or gender-diverse person to speak their truth.
Liberal
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Shelby Kramp-Neuman
Thank you.
Ms. Larouche, you have the floor for six minutes.
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Ladies, thank you for your testimony today.
To the ladies representing the Salvation Army, I'm still a little shocked by these figures you provided in your opening remarks. On the other hand, as more and more cities and municipalities declare intimate partner violence to be an epidemic, it's not all that surprising. These figures confirm that the situation is a plague. Perhaps they even represent only the tip of the iceberg if we take into account all those women who dare not denounce the violence they suffer.
Ladies, we've met a few times and I've seen all the work you do, including on the matter of human trafficking. Last night, I attended an event and came away with a document that explains all the work you do to help victims of human trafficking and domestic violence escape. On the same occasion, you invited me to visit a Salvation Army shelter in Montreal in the near future. If I were to visit this shelter, what more could I learn about coercive control that might be useful to our current study?
Assistant Director, Public Affairs, Salvation Army
Thank you very much.
I'll [Inaudible—Editor] as well, but I think especially coming to see.... We encourage all to visit with their local.... We're in 400 communities—
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
Madam Chair, could you please stop the clock? I can't hear the interpretation.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Shelby Kramp-Neuman
Please continue speaking, just random words, so we can see if the translation is working.
Assistant Director, Public Affairs, Salvation Army
Yes, absolutely.
As I was saying, we're in 400 communities, so we encourage everyone in this room to reach out and visit with their local Salvation Army footprint—
Conservative
Conservative
Assistant Director, Public Affairs, Salvation Army
—to see the human impact, because we speak to trends, but there's also power in individualized stories. It speaks to the need for a robust, systematic approach to housing and social services, because each woman's need and each child's need are different. There are trends that we speak to and we encourage, but that would be the power in visiting the shelter.
I'll allow Barb to share the true power of visiting.
Executive Director, Governing Council, Sudbury Cedar Place, Salvation Army
Well, you certainly would be welcome, first off.
Madam Chair, through you, there's a lot to learn when you enter a shelter. I've been working in the shelter for a year and a half now, and it has been an awesome time of learning. What I know is that many of the women do not even know that they're being abused. They just see it as somehow they've done something wrong or they're not enough, and that is why this coercive behaviour has continued.
I think the other part is that there are many women who are in the shelter who have experienced physical violence, and it's easier to see, but what's not so easy to see is the impact that it's had on the children who enter our services. They're many times quiet, shy, tearful and cranky at times, and these children have been impacted to the point that sometimes, when they have to go to visit their parent, their behaviour changes the following day, and it can be long term.
The impact is huge, and you'd be more than welcome to come to visit us.
Thank you.
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
Thank you very much, ladies. I'll try to get back to you later, as I have more questions.
Ms. Gill, in response to my colleague, Mrs. Vien, you were going to talk about an example in Quebec, but, in the end, there was another question. Could you come back to it and tell us a little more about it?
Prof. Carmen Gill
Yes, of course.
We were talking about training for police officers, Crown prosecutors and judges. In Quebec, the director of criminal and penal prosecutions has adopted a definition of coercive control, and Crown prosecutors must now take controlling behaviours into account. To better demonstrate these behaviours, coercive control training is offered in Quebec for better judicial practice. Unlike the rest of Canada, police officers are already being trained. The training is provided by the Regroupement des maisons pour femmes victimes de violence conjugale, which has also offered it to the director of criminal and penal prosecutions.
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
I know this was a recommendation of the “Rebuilding Trust” report. I've had exchanges with MNAs in Quebec City, who explained that training in coercive control was a recommendation, but that criminalizing these behaviours was more of a federal responsibility. I know there are specialized courts. So I imagine that this training, which is being tested in Quebec right now, stems from that recommendation.
Prof. Carmen Gill
I don't know if it stems from specialized courts. Just about everywhere in Canada, there are specialized courts that hear cases involving family violence and domestic violence, and, in Quebec, sexual violence as well. Clearly, the professionals who work in these specialized courts are going to need to be trained to better understand coercive control.
Conservative
NDP
Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Thank you so much, Chair.
Thank you to all of the witnesses for being here today.
My first question is for Madam Ridley or Ms. Briscoe.
We have a lot of shelters in my riding, and one of the things we've pushed for is low-barrier spaces, even for people fleeing violence. Is your space low-barrier?
NDP
Assistant Director, Public Affairs, Salvation Army
Yes. We have lockers on the outside where individuals can put their paraphernalia or whatever, but they can come in. We only ask that they do not use in the house, because we do have children there.
NDP
Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Great.
I asked that because there's a lot of rhetoric right now. I know that, particularly for people who are dealing with violence, it's not uncommon to use substances as a coping mechanism, so I'm very happy that you provide that service.
You spoke a little bit about rent geared to income. I actually have a bill on the floor to put in place a guaranteed livable basic income. What I said in my speech yesterday was that we can talk in the House about wanting to deal with gender-based violence, but if we don't provide people with the resources they need when we know there are real solutions, we are doing a disservice to people in the country.
Would you agree that one of the things that's needed, if we're really going to tackle gender-based violence, is a guaranteed livable basic income?
Assistant Director, Public Affairs, Salvation Army
Thank you for the question.
Policies that put money back into the hands of those in need are the ones where we've seen the most success with moving our individuals to sustainability, whether it's a guaranteed basic income approach....
We've also seen the building-block approach. We have individuals in our shelters across Canada benefiting from the disability benefit. We've seen that provinces that have raised social assistance rates are seeing more success, so policies that do put the money back, versus a tax deduction at the end of the year, are more successful.
We have also seen that there's a lot of infrastructure that needs to go with that. There are automatic filing programs that we have partnered with. We file taxes every year to ensure that individuals do receive those benefits.