Evidence of meeting #124 for Status of Women in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was evidence.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Conservative
Conservative
Dominique Vien Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
When it comes to their health, women are in the best position to recognize the signs that something is wrong. They know their bodies. Oftentimes, they are taking care of their families. Whether they're experiencing a urinary tract infection or a symptom of menopause, it isn't in their head—it's in their body and they are feeling it. When they suspect something is wrong and they tell their doctor about it or ask their doctor to check whether everything is okay, the doctor should listen to them.
Ms. White, to pick up on what Ms. Wahamaa‑Deschenes was saying earlier, I'd like to know what stages you went through. No doubt you were angry and experienced a range of emotions. You probably felt vulnerable, stressed and anxious. Your mental health was probably affected. You may have had financial problems. What happened to you next?
Conservative
As an Individual
It's very difficult. I've been trying to advocate for better so that other women don't have to go through this.
I apologize for being emotional, but this is very helpful, because if we can improve things, other women won't have to go through this. That's what I'm hoping to achieve.
Conservative
Dominique Vien Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
It's important for us to know what women who have to deal with breast cancer go through. I'm talking specifically about women who shouldn't be in the situation they're in because their cancer should have been diagnosed and treated sooner. That's my question. I'm sure you went through all kinds of stages of suffering, and we need to keep the same thing from happening to other women.
Conservative
Dense Breasts Canada
I don't want to speak for Ms. White.
Just as you described, in the beginning, I suspected something was going on. How was it possible, I thought. It wasn't. You always think it doesn't happen to women in their forties. It affects older women.
I ended up falling into a depression. After being diagnosed, I didn't know what to do. I didn't eat, sleep or move for an entire weekend. I didn't even cry. I thought about my son, my family. What was I going to do? What were the three of us going to do? My cancer was diagnosed late, so it was more advanced. I was thinking about undergoing the mastectomy, going through chemotherapy, being sick, not being able to work anymore, dying, possibly leaving my 13-year-old son without a mother—and all because people thought they knew better or felt it wasn't worth the expense. I went through the whole gamut of emotions, from anger to sadness. I didn't think this could happen to me.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Shelby Kramp-Neuman
Thank you very much.
Pam, I'm going to give you about five and a half minutes, because I was quite generous with Dominique's time.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
Thank you to all the witnesses for being here today.
Kimberley, I'm replacing Marc Serré. He was very disappointed that he wasn't here today. He's out of town. Thank you for being here. I'm sending along Marc's gratitude for you being here.
I think we've lost Dr. Seely, unfortunately.
There's a doctor at McMaster, Dr. Juliet Daniel, who's doing incredible research on triple X breast cancer in Black women. I think it was Dr. Seely who mentioned that women who get triple X breast cancer are more likely to die.
I visited Dr. Daniel's lab and met with her team. She's underfunded in her research. I'm not surprised by what we're hearing today about Black women, indigenous women and non-Caucasian women being excluded from research. It doesn't surprise me in the least. If the committee is looking for a Black woman to come and talk about it, Dr. Daniel would be an exceptional witness, if you have time.
My sister was diagnosed in 2019 and has had surgery, chemo, radiation and tamoxifen. It sucks. I'm sorry, but there's no other way to describe the ordeal that you go through.
Cheryl, I think you're very strong. I'm a crier too, so I can relate. It's okay.
I want to talk about the task force, because I have had issues with it for years. I've met with Canadian perinatal mental health folks. They have issues with the guidelines as well. We're talking about breast cancer today, but just the methodology. I'm sure you all saw that today, the health minister announced the external expert review panel, and I think we're all happy to see that.
I'll start with Dense Breasts because I've met with you for probably five or six years now.
What would you like to see? Should the task force be disbanded? How do you get expert input into the task force? How would you like to see it work to come up with the guidelines? They are separate from government.
Co-founder and Executive Director, Dense Breasts Canada
Yes, absolutely. It's an arm's-length body. We agree there's a place for an arm's-length body when it comes to scientific evidence, but an arm's-length body needs to have accountability. This body does not have accountability. When it was restructured and brought back in 2009, it was missing the accountability and oversight aspect of it.
We need task force reform and we would like to see the guidelines suspended. It's going to take time for the external expert review to file its report. It's not due until spring.
In the meantime, we have women getting later-stage diagnoses, so we need these guidelines suspended immediately. They can be replaced with provincial guidelines. The provinces are moving forward. The provinces are following the science and following the experts. All provinces—except we're waiting for Quebec—have announced or have implemented screening at 40.
We can follow the provinces and can also replace the task force.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
Who would you like to see the task force accountable to?
Co-founder and Executive Director, Dense Breasts Canada
The health minister is not able to get rid of the chair of the task force, who has shown anti-screening bias. PHAC was not able to get rid of the chair.
The health minister has to have the ability to act when dangerous guidelines are being implemented, not just for breast cancer but for different areas. We need somebody to oversee this. We need a governance structure.
This is beyond my pay grade, but we need something in the interim that includes experts. There's the [Technical difficulty—Editor], which is full of experts. You could make a panel that includes experts and patients. Right now, we don't have expert input into the guidelines. We need a whole restructuring.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
Do you think it should be one task force, or should the task force be tasked with creating an expert panel for...? It's not just breast cancer screening they do. You don't want to put breast cancer experts on the panel providing advice on perinatal mental health.
Would it make sense for the panel to appoint individual panels of subject matter experts to do the guidelines?
Co-founder and Executive Director, Dense Breasts Canada
That would be great. That really would.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
I personally have a problem with them reporting to a politician. I don't think politics should be involved. I think it should be someone independent, because you don't want politicians interfering in scientific evidence.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
I agree with having accountability, but the structure needs to change and there has been a lack of experts.
Kimberley and Cheryl, you've come here and told your stories. Do you have any advice on what we should do with this panel?
Founder, Trust Your Bust, As an Individual
Have experts, have more witnesses and have other people share their stories. Look at Janicka. She was 28. I had my son when I was 27; he would have been one.
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