Evidence of meeting #124 for Status of Women in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was evidence.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
We have a little more time.
Does anybody want to share anything else about justice and power? What does that look like for you as a survivor?
Co-founder and Executive Director, Dense Breasts Canada
You're bringing up another issue of survivorship, which could be another study, we hope, because women with breast cancer are not given the surveillance they need in Canada. The standard of care does not recognize individual risks or differences. It's about mammography. After you've had breast cancer, you get an annual mammogram. What about if you have dense breasts? There are so many other factors to take into consideration. Power and justice also apply to breast cancer survivors. We're not getting what we need with breast cancer—not before and not after.
Conservative
Conservative
Dominique Vien Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
We've had some very important and enlightening discussions.
Before the meeting, the Library of Parliament provided us with some information on the situation in each province. Our teams have also gathered information in each of the provinces, and it seems to be encouraging.
A number of provincial governments have opted not to follow the breast cancer screening guidelines. I think that's the good news today, with professionals at the local, regional and professional levels deciding to lower the screening age to 40. Some provinces, however, recommend women go for screening at around 45.
Nevertheless, that falls within the average range we would like to get to, according to your recommendations, so it bodes well.
I should note that, in Quebec, the recommended age range for screening is 50 to 74. There is hope on the horizon because it's possible that Quebec, too, could move to lower the screening age to 40.
I've had health issues, myself. I won't get into all that, but I just want to say that some of us around the table and people in our families have also had issues. A few years ago, a cousin of mine who was in her thirties had a double mastectomy. It's awful. It's an absolutely awful thing to go through. The fact that people dealing with these situations experience so much distress is, of course, very understandable.
Dr. Seely brought up equity earlier. She said that lowering the eligibility age for breast cancer screening to 40 was a matter of health, obviously—the effort is worth the cost, and we have evidence to back that up—but also a matter of equity.
How do you see the equity issue?
The question is for whomever of the four of you can answer.
As an Individual
I was listening to all of that and reflecting on the fact that the four patients providing testimony are all white women who were diagnosed in their forties.
Even though screening is more important for women of colour, it also affects white women. I don't know if it's enough to just drop it to 40 to make things equitable, but I was thinking about that too.
Dense Breasts Canada
It absolutely occurred to me, being diagnosed in my forties, that had I lived in a different jurisdiction, I would have had access to mammography and the cancer would have been caught earlier. It's not lost on any of us. The idea that your ethnicity or genetics could put you at an even larger disadvantage in being able to take care of yourself is unconscionable.
To go back to the one-size-fits-all approach, it's not working for women. It needs to happen on a more individual basis, looking at the risk assessment that can be done by doctors and at public education and being able to advocate so that women know, if they're at higher risk, to do something and, on the other side, are allowed to do it too.
Conservative
Dominique Vien Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
Ms. White, when you told us about your doctor being upset at your cancer diagnosis, I thought you were quite kind. You have a big heart, seriously. If I were in your shoes, I would've been very angry.
What happened with that doctor? Did she change her practices?
As an Individual
I think so. The doctor I had before was nearing retirement. She had seen a lot. She gave me advice to get screening. The new doctor I found was much younger and probably has to rely more on things like guidelines because there is so much material and knowledge doctors need to know.
I'm not angry at my doctor for following the guidelines put in front of her. She's told that this is the way of knowing. This is the best evidence we have as Canadians.
I'm not angry with her, but I do think she was badly affected. I was between staging appointments, and from her voice on the phone, she was clearly upset. In conversations since, when I've advocated for care, we've had a different kind of conversation.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Shelby Kramp-Neuman
Thank you, Ms. White and Dominique.
Anita, you have five minutes.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
Thank you very much.
I want to thank you for your bravery in telling your personal stories because it really does make a difference.
With just a few minutes left, is there any particular thing you feel you didn't get a chance to say today that you want to add and leave with this committee?
I'll start with you, Cheryl.
As an Individual
I'm really frustrated that the RCT from the eighties still stands. I'm really frustrated that there is no pressure to have it retracted. We know there was a failure to properly randomize patients.
I read a book during chemo that won the Pulitzer Prize. It talks about that and the study is still standing. That's the thing I would really like to have some light on.
Dense Breasts Canada
To add to that, it's mind-boggling—and I think the public is not aware of what is going on—that this very small group of non-experts controls so much of our fates and have so much power that's unfettered by any kind of accountability. I appreciate that we don't want politics intervening, but there are no mechanisms to remove someone who is overtly biased, is wreaking havoc and is literally destroying lives with deep-seated biases. To me, it's just unfathomable. It really needs to be rectified.
Founder, Trust Your Bust, As an Individual
When I was first diagnosed, I was presenting at the influential women's awards in Sudbury. I had a little pink book because I knew I was getting diagnosed.
My doctor said that I looked very professional, styled in pink, and she gave me a pink bag. I mean no offence to some of the ladies who sew these little pink bags. There was a little pillow in the bag, a poem on cloud paper and one book about the treatments you're supposed to take for chemo. I didn't even know if I had to get chemo yet. I have been in golf tournaments and gotten better loot.
I was given this lame bag and was like, “What's the pillow for?” Well, it's for your lymph nodes. I hadn't even had any surgery. I hadn't had anything yet.
Did others get a package? Did they get any ideas? Did they get any natural remedies?
Founder, Trust Your Bust, As an Individual
There's no pre- and post-package. What are we supposed to do?
You research. You google. You go to the health food store. You go for reiki. I went for reiki before each chemotherapy. That really grounded me.
Chemo was supposed to heal me. It wasn't “eff chemo”. I had to embrace it.
It's about education. Also, give us some good packages coming in and going out. I'm all about the loot.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
You have been amazing in raising awareness, even today, for many of us. There's clearly a need for more education to allow people to do the self-advocacy you're talking about.
I don't think I got to Jennie, so I'll go to her. If there's time, I think Carolyn wanted to say something else.
Go ahead, Jennie.
Co-founder and Executive Director, Dense Breasts Canada
Just to reiterate, the evidence is very clear. Dr. Seely presented all the Canadian evidence. We have the modelling. We have the U.S. lowering the screening age based on racial disparities and a rising incidence. What is it we're missing here in Canada? Why are we not acting?
We need to take action immediately because lives are at stake. It's just common sense, and we can save a lot of money by doing so because the average cost of treatment for stage 1 breast cancer is $39,000 versus $370,000 for stage 4. We can reduce the burden on the health care system, we can save lives and we can reduce suffering. Let's just do it.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Shelby Kramp-Neuman
I think that's quite a timely finish.
Thank you, Anita.
On behalf of the committee, I extend my thanks to all of the witnesses for being here today and providing their testimony. Indeed, your experiences and stories help shed light on a really difficult conversation, but it's extremely important.
We started at 4.34, so I have about two minutes that I need with the committee.
We have a proposed budget in the amount of $16,200 for the study on breast cancer. A screening was circulated to everyone yesterday for your consideration. Is it the will of the committee to adopt the budget?
Conservative