Status of Women Committee on Nov. 20th, 2024

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you.

I asked about decriminalizing sex work. Could you send that in writing for me?

I wanted you to speak a little about having an independent commissioner to oversee progress on gender-based violence. Call for justice 1.7 of the national inquiry calls for that. The federal government commissioned a study on that, in terms of how to implement it, but has yet to act on it, which is deeply troubling. In terms of action on MMIWG, we know there's been barely any.

Certainly we have solutions to end gender-based violence. We just lack the political will. We're focusing on things after the fact, when it's too late. I know of so many women who were murdered in my community. Sometimes it's like a regular occurrence. We're in a constant state of grief. It is a crisis, but it's too late.

It's not that I don't support forms of justice, but I just feel that we need to focus on prevention. You spoke a lot about prevention. Why is it important to have oversight to ensure that things are being put in place that will save lives?

[Valérie Auger-Voyer]

Thank you. That's a great question.

To reiterate, indigenous women's organizations are pointing out that only two of the 231 calls for justice have been completely implemented, which is hugely problematic.

Yes, we want to see accountability. We're happy that there's a national action plan, but we need oversight and we need accountability with input from our sector. Otherwise, it's left to provincial governments to do whatever they want with the money, and it's not necessarily guided by subject matter expertise.

LEAF recently tabled a report called “What It Takes: Establishing a Gender-Based Violence Accountability Mechanism in Canada”. I urge you to look at that. I know that a lot of members of the committee were at the launch of the report. It also builds on the Mass Casualty Commission's recommendation to establish a GBV commissioner.

I can tell you what the purpose would be. It would be to harmonize efforts across jurisdictions, to track their progress, to monitor and evaluate, to look at the compliance with international human rights obligations, and to collect data and research. It would also have advisory functions, such as liaising with advocates from marginalized groups. It would increase transparency as well as public awareness and prevention.

This is really a key part of the picture, because right now the national action plan is also dependent on election cycles, and we need more than that. We need something more sustainable for accountability.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

In terms of data collection, why is it important to ensure that we collect disaggregated data in the study of GBV?

I know we want to lump everybody together, but why is it important to ensure that we collect disaggregated data?

[Valérie Auger-Voyer]

It's important because there are certain groups that are disproportionately affected, such as the ones I mentioned earlier—indigenous women, women with disabilities and trans people.

Today is Trans Day of Remembrance. It's really important to be able to distinguish those different identities and intersecting identities when looking at data. Otherwise, we come up with solutions that fit one group but don't fit others or don't capture the reality of other groups.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I've been cut off. I had five million questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Thank you.

Anna, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Esther, I'm going to ask you this. There has been a lot of conversation here today, as we just heard, about rehabilitation. There's been talk about teaching what healthy touch is.

Can I ask you about the man who murdered your aunt? Did he come from an abusive home?

[Esther Uhlman]

No.

He's a member of my extended family. He's my dad's ex-brother-in-law. I actually know his parents quite well because my dad was married to his sister for almost 20 years.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

I guess rehabilitation doesn't work, clearly.

What I don't understand.... I'm going to go back to the Jordan law. I think we have to change that.

I can't remember which of my colleagues earlier brought up Cait Alexander, who came to this committee and testified. She was left for dead. Because of the Jordan law, her ex-boyfriend—if you want to call him that—got off. It wasn't the first time. She can't do a thing about it and she can't say anything about it because it never went to court. This man is free to roam the streets and abuse other women.

I'm going to ask both of you this question: Do you agree that we have to look at that Jordan law and revamp it to protect women?

I'll ask both of you if you think that has to be done.

[Esther Uhlman]

Yes, absolutely.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Senator, would you comment?

[Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu]

I think the notwithstanding clause of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms should be used to suspend the Supreme Court's decision in specific cases. Civil cases have shorter time frames and often have fewer consequences than criminal cases. For crimes such as murder and sexual assault, Parliament should use the notwithstanding clause to ask the Supreme Court to reconsider its decision.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

I recently spoke with some police officers from York Region in my riding. I asked them why this is happening in the community, in the small hamlet where I live, where crime has gone through the roof.

One of the things that was said to me—which left me shocked, to be totally honest—is that the criminals are saying, “Hey, we can get away with murder here in Canada because the law is on our side, not on the victim's side.”

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

There are no consequences.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

You're right. There are no consequences.

We need to change the bill of rights to protect women.

Do you agree with that, Esther and Senator?

[Esther Uhlman]

Yes.

In the case of my aunt's killer, he was always a bad guy. However, lack of accountability allowed him to get progressively worse. He'd do something, get away with it, do something a little worse, and then do something a little worse, until it came to the point of murder.

The lack of accountability led us to this point. Maybe if he'd had the proper punishment for his previous offences, we wouldn't have come to this.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Go ahead, Senator.

[Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu]

I'm thinking of reciprocity between provinces, for example. If you're a woman living in Ontario, if you come to Quebec and are assaulted, you won't be helped by Ontario or Quebec, because there are barriers between the provinces regarding victim assistance, which is a provincial jurisdiction. However, if someone commits a crime in Ontario, he can be incarcerated in Quebec, because the same federal programs apply everywhere in Canada.

One day, there should be minimum standards for victim assistance. It isn't normal for Newfoundland, among others, to have no victim assistance program, while Quebec and Ontario have good programs. The problem is that if you're travelling to a province and are the victim of a crime, you won't be helped by that province or by your province, because the crime must have been committed in your home province.

For years, I've been urging the federal Minister of Justice to hold discussions with his provincial partners to conclude reciprocal agreements with them. For example, if Quebec is prepared to help Quebeckers who have been victims in Ontario, Ontario should do the same. In my opinion, the absence of help for victims of crime is a big problem, regardless of the province where the crime happens.

There are so many things to do. But I'd have to go back into politics.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

I'm going to finish by saying this: If we want to ensure the protection of women, the law must be the same in every single province so that women can walk free and safe, no matter where they are.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Thank you.

At this point, MP Serré, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you very much to our witnesses today. They again gave us a lot of information.

It's difficult for victims. We've heard loud and clear that changes are needed. Obviously, the provinces, the federal government and the municipalities have an important role to play in this regard.

Mr. Boisvenu, thank you for your years of service.

You mentioned therapy for men. You could say it's a joke at the moment, because it's a few days here and there with a group of men. You talked about your experience in Quebec. Do you have any examples of what the federal government can do? We have political parties here, we talk about national standards, but discussions with the provinces are always difficult. The witnesses tell us that we should have national standards, but we still have to take into account provincial jurisdictions.

What are your recommendations for us to address this problem of virtually non-existent therapy for men?

[Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu]

Thank you for the question. You are quite right.

The federal government should adopt the same approach to funding as it did with shelters for women who are victims of violence. Ontario is quite advanced in this area, as it has six treatment centres for violent men that are successful. Western Canada also has violence treatment centres for indigenous people, which are achieving good results. In Quebec, on the other hand, I believe there are two centres, with a six-month waiting period for access to treatment. If a violent man has to wait six months, there's a good chance he'll reoffend.

So we have to dedicate resources to that area and provide therapy to men. There's no other way: We have to protect women and treat men.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you.

Esther, online harms were mentioned. We know that currently there's an online harms act in Parliament. It's been delayed. It's been held up. I don't know whether it's a free speech issue or not. With TikTok and Instagram.... I'm older, so I just follow Facebook. X is a cesspool of hate, so I don't even look at that.

I want to get your sense of what the federal or provincial governments—any government—can do to deal with the online hate you're seeing, for example.

[Esther Uhlman]

In my aunt's case, online hate wasn't really an issue. The perpetrator just liked to commit crimes against women. I don't think anything he saw online encouraged him to do that, because he was like that before social media was really a thing. He's 54 and he's been like this since he was young, although obviously he wasn't committing murders then.

I can't say I'm 100% familiar with what you're referring to, but with regard to my aunt's case, it wouldn't have made a difference.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Ms. Auger-Voyer, we've heard a lot of witnesses. When we look at the federal and provincial governments, we see the Premier of Ontario, Mr. Ford, saying it's all a federal issue. Victims are tired of hearing about the federal and provincial aspects because they're complicated. The laws are not necessarily being applied equally across provinces, and there is a lack of resources.

You mentioned some recommendations, but in light of what you've heard today, do you have any other specific recommendations, either federally or provincially? Right now, when we look at the lack of courts, staff and training, it's really a systemic problem from A to Z. There is no support for victims and there are no lawyers assigned to them.

In the time we have left, do you have any other recommendations—maybe three—for the federal or provincial governments? They are sitting together and talking, but it's not necessarily going quickly enough.