Status of Women Committee on Nov. 25th, 2024

[Amy Jarrette]

The CSC has prioritized the use of correctional programs to reduce the risk of reoffending while increasing safety in communities in the country. Our programming targets factors that are directly linked to the criminal behaviour of offenders to reduce reoffending—

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I'm sorry. For clarification, I'm talking about violence that's perpetrated by correctional service officers against incarcerated persons.

What has been done to deal with gender-based violence that is being perpetrated by correctional officers?

[Amy Jarrette]

We are required to train all staff. In keeping with the CCRA, public safety is of paramount importance. When there is any evidence that staff has behaved inappropriately, it is investigated and appropriate action is taken to address the situation. This can include action up to and including termination, and potentially criminal charges as well, depending on the nature of the incident.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I ask that, because when we're talking about gender-based violence in Manitoba, I recall that there was a young woman who grew up in the child welfare system. We know that there is a high rate of folks with a history in the child welfare system who end up becoming incarcerated, which is very close to what we're talking about: mental health, trauma and all of that. She ended up—and it was on video and it went to the courts—on camera not having a proper response from correction officers. She was from Roseau River, and she ended up dying in prison. We see reports of that.

I've had training on how to teach courses at the Grand Valley Institute, which has been a topic of discussion. I have to say that my experience there as a student, not as somebody who was incarcerated—I want to be really clear on that—was pretty violent. I observed women being treated so violently there that I ended up writing a TED Talk about it. It was that violent.

What's being done to deal with violence against women by correctional officers? It is very violent.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Thank you. Unfortunately, your time is up, Leah.

However, once again, I will remind Ms. Jarrette that, if there's anything that you have been asked during committee that you're unable to answer, please feel free to send any remarks in after the fact.

Before I go on to Ms. Ferreri, instead of doing turns of five and five minutes, are we comfortable with three and three minutes?

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Sure.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Okay.

MP Ferreri, you have the floor for three minutes.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses here today from Corrections Canada as we talk about intimate partner violence.

Madam Jarrette, how many programs in men's medium or maximum security prisons are specific to intimate partner violence?

[Amy Jarrette]

Our model is the integrated correctional program model, and it is part of that program model.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

How many are very specific to intimate partner violence?

[Amy Jarrette]

Within the ICPM, we have the main program stream, the indigenous program stream and the Inuit offender stream, and they all address intimate partner violence throughout the program. This can extend—

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Just for clarification, is there no specific program about intimate partner violence?

[Amy Jarrette]

There is nothing specific for intimate partner violence. However, there is a sex offender program for both indigenous and non-indigenous people.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Obviously, you can see, based on this committee, that it's pretty concerning when there's this is a massive increase in intimate partner violence and there's no programming for it.

Ms. Jarrette, research shows that therapeutic change, particularly in high-risk offenders, required skilled facilitation by highly trained professionals with a deep understanding of the behavioural issues involved.

What are the academic requirements for corrections officers for them to implement this training?

[Amy Jarrette]

I'm sorry, which training are you referring to?

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

I'm referring to any of them. For a correctional officer, what training do they get on intimate partner violence as well as addictions—which goes to my colleague's point about addictions?

[Amy Jarrette]

I'll come back to the programming because of a comment you made about there being no intimate partner violence programming. That's incorrect. There is programming that addresses that through the ICPM. It focuses on domestic and family violence and substance use, among other topics. It's very much part of the program, part of the ICPM.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

I'm going to have to cut you off. In dealing with corrections officers on the ground, they would certainly like a lot more training. That is what we're hearing on the ground from a lot of the corrections officers dealing with addictions, and hearing about that.

I am going to move a motion here. I hope to get this done quickly in case of more questions, but it does tie in very much with our witnesses. I am going to be formally moving a motion.

I had the opportunity to tour Grand Valley, like my colleague mentioned, and I had an opportunity to visit the mother-child program that I believe has tremendous merit.

There was recently a documentary, and one of the things was was said that really stood out was that when you sentence or incarcerate a mother, you ultimately incarcerate a child. I think that's very true. Making sure that the bond between mother and child is strong and thus prevents recidivism is very, very important, because many of the women, as we've heard, and many people in prison are generationally put there. There's an intersection of issues, 100%. I think that we would all agree that we would want people to come out better than when they go in.

I would like to move forward the following motion, because what I witnessed at Grand Valley, under the mother-child program, was highly concerning, and I think it is up to this committee to at least study it. I got a chance to meet the woman who was in charge of the program. She was lovely. There has been no longitudinal data on this program to date.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

I have a point of order, Chair. It's been more than three minutes, so can we get to the motion, please.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Could you speak to your motion, please. Read the motion.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you.

The motion I would like to move reads:

That the committee undertake a study of no less than three meetings on the Institutional mother-child program, and invite the Minister of Public Safety, Democratic Institutions and Intergovernmental Affairs, the Commissioner of Correctional Services Canada, and other witnesses as submitted by committee members.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

MP Damoff, do you wish to speak?

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Yes, thank you, Chair.

I want to first thank my colleague for bringing this motion forward.

I have visited the mother-child program twice at Grand Valley. At Buffalo Sage, the former executive director there said that all women benefit from the children who are part of the program when it's running. They also have a program at the Edmonton Institution for Women, which I am incredibly supportive of.

I do find disturbing the click factory put out on social media just to generate outrage about the program with comments like it was “shocking”. CSC runs a lot of programs and this is probably one of the best ones they run. Mother-child programs are run in the U.S., India, Kenya, Argentina and Norway.

Most of the women who are in prison are young and are single mothers. In fact, 70% of federally sentenced women are mothers to children under the age of 18. Two-thirds of those mothers are the primary or sole caregivers of their children.

Indigenous women, as my colleague mentioned, are grossly overrepresented in federal corrections. They make up only 4% of the Canadian population, but they represent 41% of all female admissions to federal custody. However, I would note that if you go out west, that number probably rises to 85 to 90%. At Grand Valley, two of the moms whom I met were actually from the west, but we've run out of room in our prisons out west so they were sent to Grand Valley. It's probably one of the best programs that CSC runs.

Just for the record, Chair, the conditions to be part of the program are that the moms are classified as minimum or medium security; that they've been screened against the relevant provincial child welfare registries to verify whether information exists that should be considered in the decision-making process; that the child welfare agency is supportive of their participation, and there's no current assessment from a mental health professional indicating that the mother is incapable of caring—

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

I'm sorry, just to save my colleague time, I have no issue with the mom. There's no issue whatsoever. I just wanted to let her know that there are no issues about the mom.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

With all due respect, while you spoke highly of it here, the information that you put out on social media—