Status of Women Committee on Dec. 4th, 2024

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses for being here today for this very important study.

My question is for all the witnesses. Earlier you said that the LGBTQ+ community is subjected to intimidation and violence. I also think society suffers from a lack of acceptance. As you know, the community is facing a great deal of violence in the United States. Are you concerned that this violence may reach us here?

[Michael Wallis]

My perception is based on having access to information on violent extremism as an integrated centre and access to various databases, and keeping a finger on the pulse of the threat of terrorism in this country and to Canadian interests overseas. In general, at this moment, the internationalization and the Internet-based propagation of violent extremist threats means it's not necessarily the partner next door. The influences are coming from various corners of the Internet and, indeed, the globe. The truth is there are individuals in Canada who could be in communication with folks in Europe, the United States or Southeast Asia, and that is what seems to be the driving factor.

[Peter Madou]

From a service perspective, these acts that are taking place anywhere—they're kind of borderless—could aim to inspire people to mobilize towards violence. If there are individuals who are radicalized but not quite sure they want to get to violence, an act that takes place, say, in the United States or anywhere else could incite them and mobilize them to do so. That's an instance we can sometimes see: A terrorist attack somewhere may inspire others to mobilize to violence more immediately.

[Catherine Dubuc]

Thank you for your question, Ms. Bérubé.

I just want to add a few points to my colleagues' responses, even though they did a very good job of answering the question.

Given the way people mobilize these days through social media and the Internet, for example, the RCMP's concern is to monitor all external forces. For example, we monitor the potential consequences of major political decisions and the tendency of movements that mobilize in one country or another. However, the RCMP's primary concern is the safety of all Canadians.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Thank you, Ms. Dubuc.

MP Gazan, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much.

I'm hearing more about this rise of Christo-fascism that is occurring in the United States and Canada. There was an article written in the Times Colonist, a paper from Victoria, which says:

We are witnessing the rise of Christo-fascism in the US and Canada. It is especially white Christian men finding political identity outside of previously trusted democratic institutions including public health. Sometimes this identity reveals itself as skepticism and hate for government leaders and vaccine mandates. The skepticism and hate is becoming increasingly personal, widening to include racialized people, queer folks, and women who suffer threats of violence.

Is Christo-fascism starting to infiltrate Canadian politics?

[Peter Madou]

I'm not aware of that term yet being used in our parlance. Ideologically driven violent extremism is typically very much driven by individuals who are xenophobic or have issues with gender-based identities. It's a variety of different things in terms of ideologies that can mobilize people to violence, so this could be a phenomenon, but it hasn't yet hit my radar. I'm not sure about others.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I've been very public about this. I think people are just not well since the pandemic. I think we have a real mental health crisis in the country. People are suffering and struggling more than ever, and when people are struggling, they're more vulnerable to being usurped by these extremist groups.

Do you see a rise in people who are being, I guess, recruited by extremist groups?

Ms. Dubuc, you were nodding your head, so I'll let you answer.

[Catherine Dubuc]

The RCMP is aware of this trend, yes. I cannot comment any further in terms of actual data, but if you're looking for further information on this, I'd be happy to follow up after today's meeting.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Thank you.

For the last Conservative and Liberal members, we'll do three minutes each.

Mr. Généreux, you have the floor for three minutes.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses for being with us today.

Ms. Dubuc, how can you charge people with a hate crime if the Criminal Code doesn't contain an exact definition of what a hate crime is?

[Catherine Dubuc]

Thank you very much for that question.

I will respond in English this time. Hate crime is not defined in Canadian law per se, but there are four criminal offences in the Criminal Code that deal with hateful motivation. I talked a bit earlier about willful promotion of anti-Semitism, advocating genocide, public assignment of hatred and willful promotion of hatred.

What happens is that when an individual is accused and ultimately convicted under the Criminal Code, the Criminal Code requires that the court consider that the hateful motivation be used as an aggravating factor to address the sentence or the length of the sentence of the individual who's been convicted.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

All right. Thank you.

From 2015 to 2023, the Canadian population increased by nearly 7 million inhabitants, from 35 million to 42 million. Do you think the percentage of hate crimes and of total crimes committed against the LGBTQ community has increased, or has it remained in proportion to the population?

[Catherine Dubuc]

Thank you for your question.

As I mentioned in my opening remarks, it's essentially hard to assess hate crime rates. We're really starting to focus more on increasing the capacities of both the RCMP and all police services in the country. We really need to focus our joint efforts on how to report and evaluate the actual numbers.

Awareness campaigns have been introduced to enable our officers and the public to understand what a hate crime is. Then there are the elements that come into play in building the public's trust when it comes to reporting the crimes in question. That remains to be seen.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

So you don't really have any statistics, or you can't give us any. However, do you think that the policies of the present government, which has been in power since 2015, have caused this increase in hate crimes?

[Catherine Dubuc]

Thank you for your question.

That's a nice try, Mr. Généreux, but I'm definitely not going to comment on the present government's policies. However, I can say that measures have been put in place, such as those implemented by the RCMP. Apart from the measures we have now, steps have also been taken to gather more information.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Thank you.

Ms. Sidhu, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses.

My question is for Ms. Dubuc.

Ms. Dubuc, this year the RCMP hate crimes report notes that roughly 60% of hate crime incidents are committed by thrill-seeking offenders, usually youth and teenagers. How can education and social programs be restructured to disrupt these pathways among youth? I know that you already talked about removing barriers and special events happening, but what else can we do?

[Catherine Dubuc]

There are a few things right now. I think the first is that, with the RCMP and the Canadian Race Relations Foundation we put in place a couple of years ago, the hate crimes task force that I mentioned earlier is foundational to really establishing public awareness, not only for, of course, members of the public and our communities, but also for the police in terms of what constitutes a hate crime and what constitutes a hate incident.

I mentioned earlier as well that we're looking at, of course, mobilizing capacity to be able to report and, obviously, identify those hate crimes and the incidents in question. There is also anti-hate training and anti-racism police training that's happening within the RCMP and the police jurisdictions across the country, through the Canadian Police College. Most important, coming back to your question, is really focusing our efforts on culturally sensitive and trauma-informed engagement with victims, members of the community, survivors and witnesses alike.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you.

My colleague said that social media contributed to amplifying hate and extremism in Canada. How can social media be leveraged as a tool to raise awareness, promote education and counteract hate narrative?

[Catherine Dubuc]

I'm sorry. Can you clarify the question? How can social media be used to dispel some of the misinformation that's online?

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Yes, it's that misinformation.

[Catherine Dubuc]

Thank you. I really appreciate that we had two of your colleagues nodding and saying yes. This is a fun group.

I think there's a lot of information out there. I know the RCMP have most of their tools and information available on their external website. I'm not sure why I'm saying “their”—I'm part of the organization. We're certainly leveraging elements like community policing, and having conversations with marginalized groups and vulnerable populations is really important to ensure that we're supporting the community and really trying to, I'll say, bridge those connecting tissues and dispel some of the myths that perhaps are being purported through misinformation and social media.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Mr. Madou, do you want to add to that?

[Peter Madou]

I actually just aligned with my colleague here. I would say that the service has invested significant resources in terms of outreach. We believe that, aside from our investigations, the ability for the service to reach different communities, different levels of government and different associations towards becoming more alive to the threats around there will help stitch all the right elements for a better dialogue within society and potentially a way to fight misinformation and disinformation.