Status of Women Committee on Dec. 4th, 2024

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Thank you.

I'm sorry, MP Gazan.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I need way more time, Chair. Really.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

I know. We all do.

Go ahead, Ms. Vien.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Ladies and gentlemen, the number of hate crimes has increased at an alarming rate since 2015. Violent crimes, generally speaking, have risen by 50%, sexual assault by more than 74%, murders by 28%, firearm-related violent crimes by 116% and the number of homicides linked to street gangs by 80%.

What's your assessment of the current Criminal Code provisions? Aren't the public policies that the government has in place somewhat lenient given all the figures I just cited?

[Peter Madou]

Thank you for your question.

I find it hard to comment specifically on the Criminal Code since our focus is mainly on violent hate crimes, which pose a threat to national security.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Ms. Dubuc, you represent a police service. Would you please tell us about the quality of the current public policies and Criminal Code sections that are quite lenient? It's not me not saying that; it's the police services, in particular.

[Catherine Dubuc]

Thank you for your question.

I can tell you that the Criminal Code provides no definition of what constitutes a hate crime. There's no such thing yet.

What it does contain are four criminal offences that refer to certain elements. For example, there are advocating genocide, promoting antisemitism and public incitement of hatred, which means generating that energy in a public space. These hate-based motivations under various Criminal Code sections are actually put to good use.

There's obviously what comes into play once an individual is arrested, tried and convicted. Everything that's a motive for hatred serves as an aggravating factor at sentencing, and that can have an impact on the length of sentence for the individual in question.

I don't have any other available information.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Go ahead, Ms. Ferreri.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for being here.

I have just a couple of quick questions. We've heard.... Obviously, intimate partner violence is a massive problem that we're seeing in the country as well, and a lot of folks have said, “The offender was out on bail. There aren't consequences to prevent people from committing crime.” We had a gentleman in Peterborough who was arrested for homophobic slurs—we've seen an increase in hate crimes—but he was out on bail. My question is, do you have any data on how many of these targeted crimes against specific groups are by offenders out on bail?

[Catherine Dubuc]

I don't have that information available today. However, I'm happy to follow up in a written submission following today's meeting.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

That would be tremendous. Thank you.

Do any of you have any asks from specific groups asking for stricter bail conditions?

[Catherine Dubuc]

Not to my knowledge, no, but again, I'm happy to find out.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

That's great.

The other question I would love to ask is about the data around.... I have some hate crime in my own riding. In 2023, Peterborough had the second-highest incidence of hate crime by metropolitan area in Canada, with 33.5 per 100,000. In 2015, Peterborough had 7.4 police-related incidents of hate crime. Do you have any data on what we've seen in hate crime in the last...? My question is, has it increased?

[Catherine Dubuc]

It certainly has increased, and this is something I mentioned in my opening remarks. Statistics Canada releases data taken from the uniform crime reporting survey. It's data that's publicly available every quarter, that's been released, and it's actually carried out within their Canadian centre for criminal justice. If you're looking for RCMP-specific data, I could provide further information in a written submission.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you. What's—

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

I'm sorry, Michelle. Thank you.

MP Serré, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses.

Ms. Dubuc, you mentioned that the Criminal Code doesn't really provide any definition of what constitutes a hate crime.

Mr. Madou and Mr. Wallis, you mentioned that many hate crimes that are currently being committed aren't a threat to national security. Would you please help us unravel those definitions?

[Peter Madou]

Thank you for your question.

From the standpoint of national security and under the Canadian Security Intelligence Service Act, a crime must be an act of serious violence and be motivated by a political or religious objective for us to be able to investigate. Consequently, it takes more than a simple crime for us to intervene.

We obviously aren't a police service; we only conduct national security investigations. When an element of a case falls within the ambit of the Criminal Code, we forward that information to the RCMP, with whom we often work very closely, or to the appropriate police service in that jurisdiction. We can forward certain information so that the police service can continue its criminal investigation.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Mr. Wallis, as you know, our study focuses on hate-motivated violence targeting the 2ELGBTQI+ community. We focus on hate-based violence against that community. Can you help us gain a clearer understanding of the definitions that govern your work?

[Michael Wallis]

Yes, I would like to add a little.

The integrated terrorism assessment centre is a functional component of CSIS. We don't exist in legislation. We have the CSIS Act to guide us, and it represents the scope. However, we are an integrated centre, so you would be surprised to find out that we have, for example, a complement from the RCMP, and that we work actively through the CSIS regional offices in particular to engage police of jurisdiction across the country.

The assessment function that we undertake in the current threat environment causes us to be as elastic as possible in understanding what is occurring in—to use a term but not to employ jargon—what I prefer to call a “verge activity”. These are activities that are very close to meeting the threshold of the definition of violent extremism and terrorism that my colleague identified but that understand that there is a bit of a permeable membrane where certain activities can be hate one minute and national security the next minute.

To answer the question, then, I will say that we operate from a functional perspective based on the definition. However, practically speaking, we are engaged with law enforcement to try to cover the spectrum, particularly because the threat of a lone actor in Canada requires it of us.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you.

Ms. Dubuc, your opening remarks didn't focus directly on the subject of our study and contained very little information on the 2ELGBTQI+ community. Would you please have your organization provide the committee with a report on the training you provide for RCMP officers to improve their knowledge of that community?

Mr. Madou, Ms. Gazan discussed the policy in the context of online messaging. Who are the players exerting influence in Canada? Is it Russia or China? Homosexuality is punished by the death penalty in some countries. What are the influencer countries when it comes to online hate speech in Canada?

[Peter Madou]

Thank you for your question.

I have to say that state actors aren't specifically the ones that try to promote terrorist acts, including seriously violent acts. It's more radicalized individuals who live abroad or, in some instances, in Canada and who represent religious groups. They mainly promote incidents online, in chat rooms, some of which are encrypted and can't always be detected. So it isn't specifically state actors that are behind this, but rather large and small terrorist groups that like to proselytize.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Thank you.

MP Bérubé, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.