Status of Women Committee on Dec. 11th, 2024

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you so much to everyone for being here.

Zipp, I see you and I see your mom behind you. There's an innate human desire to belong and feel included, and we don't want to feel that we're different. Ironically, it's our difference that makes us so special.

School is not a great place for a lot of kids. For kids who learn differently, it's hard. It's really hard. I just want to say that I appreciate your being here. You're young, and you're brave and courageous. You have some support around you, which is important.

I think all of us in this room remember everything that happened to us in those first eight years of our lives in elementary school, but we don't know where our car keys are. It's the most formative part of our life. Thank you for sharing your stories.

I want to dive in further, if I can, with Mylène.

I think the key in all of this is ensuring that we have legislation that puts consequences in place against hate crime so that it doesn't happen. One of the things that we've seen repeatedly.... Stats Canada released a crazy press release today, saying that 34% of all homicides were committed by a criminal who was out on bail or another form of release. Those are historic numbers.

In Peterborough, we had a hate crime that went public nationally, which I was a part of in terms of standing up for this person: “Pride flag burning, homophobic slurs lead to hate crime arrest in Peterborough”. The man who was charged was out violating his probation and violating his parole.

We know that Bill C-5 and Bill C-75 are two pieces of legislation right now in the House of Commons that are contributing to violent repeat offenders being out and committing crimes.

My question for you, Mylène, is this: Would you like to see those bills altered and pulled back? Would you like to see stronger bail reform so that hate crimes have consequences tied to them?

[Mylène de Repentigny-Corbeil]

Thank you for your question.

Yes, we have to establish much more inclusive laws respecting the many types of violence. As I like to say, the next victim is still alive, and we can still save them.

We're talking about a context of extreme violence, by which I mean murder. There's a very broad umbrella that covers all types of violence ranging from online comments to physical violence.

We must both understand the violence-related umbrella and use a range of tools to fight it. Apart from the legal aspect and criminalization, there also has to be an upstream effort to raise awareness and educate people to improve social cohesion. What has to be understood is that we have rights and our place in society. We want to learn to live together.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

I agree.

Thank you so much. I'm sorry for the rush. We have such a short amount of time.

I'm curious if you're familiar with.... We talked about images that are being shared online, the hate and scary stuff. In the justice committee we're hearing about sextortion. There are terrible things going on.

Bill C-412 is a bill I would love you to have a look at. It's a Conservative bill by a Conservative colleague, Michelle Rempel Garner, which would hold social media companies accountable for hate. We could start there.

We've seen a 251% increase in hate crimes since Justin Trudeau took office. I'm curious to know what you think would be the reason behind that, Mylène.

[Mylène de Repentigny-Corbeil]

I'm not familiar with those bills, but I'll be happy to read them.

The reality is that non-consensual sharing of intimate pictures, online extortion and online sexual violence are very common phenomena, and they're increasingly spreading through trolling, fake news and algorithmic discrimination.

These expressions of violence raise many challenges, and the legal system isn't designed to deal with the many forms they take. I don't know if criminalization is the solution, but there has to be a reaction to these forms of violence. As you said, cyberstalking, as a percentage of total incidents, has reached absurd heights. Some 36% of LGBT people report that they have been victims of the dissemination of sexual images without their consent. This also affects the LGBTQ+ community.

Measures really must be taken, particularly in the areas of education and digital literacy, to help people gain a clearer understanding of these phenomena.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Thank you.

MP Hepfner, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to all of our witnesses for being here.

Zipp, I was also so impressed with your opening statement. As my colleague Leah said, I was blown away by your wisdom and insight, particularly when you said that politicians are using your human rights to deflect from other crises.

You're in Saskatchewan. Saskatchewan recently brought in Bill 137. It requires that parents give consent for students to use their preferred name or pronouns, and it restricts sexual health education by requiring parents to consent to that as well.

My question to you is this: If gender-diverse kids can't express themselves or speak to anyone confidentially at school, and if they can't do that at home, where do they go?

[Zipp Neufeld]

That is a good question.

My friends have a group where we just talk to each other, either at recess or while we're working. We try to be inclusive in our class. I love my class that way. If somebody wants to use preferred pronouns, they will. It's just that they won't tell the teacher about it, because it's important for a child to feel safe among their friends—anywhere, really. Since that has been taken away, it's especially important.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

The province said it would use the notwithstanding clause, which shows that provincial leaders know it's going to be violating human rights. They're using that in advance to push it through regardless.

Thank you for that.

Pam Krause, it's great to see you again.

We met in Calgary. I was there for the pride festivities. I was so impressed with your organization, Camp fYrefly, and all that you do to support youth in the Calgary area.

When I was there, the community was very concerned at the time about this new legislation coming to Alberta. Since then, it has passed. I'd like to hear an update from you about what you're hearing from people in your circles.

[Pam Krause]

It's been a very difficult time. There's no question. We should all just listen to Zipp, quite frankly.

There's an immediate and serious consequence when we think about legislation that is less inclusive. Now that this legislation has passed, we immediately see a chilling effect. There's concern among teachers, parents and students about what schools and support for transgender youth will look like, moving forward.

I think one of the most important things we can do together, as adults, is to pay very close attention. Find those immediate supports. As Zipp talked about, sometimes these are informal. They provide an opportunity for community organizations to really lean into what we're meant to be doing to ensure, in a grassroots way, that we're providing that support. We're going to see some consequences that will have to be addressed. I don't want to think about what those will be, but I know they can be pretty serious.

I really believe that organizations like The Alberta Teachers' Association, community organizations and other advocacy groups are going to have to fine-tune their game and provide not just support but also real, strong advocacy work, moving forward.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

A lot of your work surrounds sexual health education.

Why is that such an important piece in cutting back on the hate we're seeing against the 2SLGBTQI+ community?

[Pam Krause]

I think other people have talked about this. The very important thing is that everybody gets information and education so that people can learn how to be inclusive. The work we do in schools provides a safe space for everyone. From my experience in our organization, I truly believe that when you provide a safe space for one vulnerable group, you are actually opening the door for others to feel safe as well. There's a tone that can be set by inclusion that I think is very important.

The other thing about sexual health education is that the focus we provide is on helping everyone to have healthy relationships. There's an outcome to that. I think people are less likely to bully people online when they understand healthy relationships and the consequences of their actions.

Sexual health education is broad. It is meant to provide inclusive.... It's meant to provide people with ways they can be better community members and citizens and to better support other youth and adults as they grow up.

I strongly believe that it's vital education that shouldn't be part of any sort of political rhetoric at all.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Thank you.

Madame Larouche, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Once again, I want to thank all the witnesses for their testimony, which will give us a lot of food for thought.

Ms. de Repentigny‑Corbeil, you discussed disinformation and anti-trans theory in your opening remarks.

Would you please tell us more about that?

[Mylène de Repentigny-Corbeil]

You've probably heard about a movement that has spread across the country and that denies the existence of trans people. It seeks to deprive them of access to their rights and to prevent them from fully living their lives.

The movement is expanding online, but we also see it offline. Its adherents organize protests, participate in disinformation, especially regarding the age of consent to gender-affirming surgery, create disinformation regarding the wishes of trans and non-binary people to affirm their trans identity, and spread hate speech.

I would also like to point out the connection between this movement and sex education, which these groups criticize. But sex education doesn't just concern sexuality; it also addresses relational life, emotional life, consent, relationships with others and identity recognition.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Mr. Tremblay, when you organize your events, do you yourself also notice the consequences of disinformation and anti-trans theories?

[Dave Tremblay]

Yes, absolutely.

We often hear the expression "gender theory". There's no such thing. People want to use the expression to reduce a person's existence to a theoretical entity, but it can't be done. You mustn't subscribe to that idea. Every individual has a right, individually, to live and experience what that person is. Gender is well defined, based particularly on historical, anthropological and sociological observation. Gender is therefore a construct. We must not allow ourselves to be invalidated by any use of the expression "gender theory".

So these are things that we regularly observe during events that the Alliance Arc‑en‑ciel organizes, during discussions and when members come and tell us about their concerns and what they experience at school. It's very troubling.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Merci.

MP Gazan, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much.

My next questions are for you, Daphne Dike-Hart. You indicated that you're a parent of a 12-year-old trans daughter.

[Daphne Dike-Hart]

No, I read a letter to the committee from a parent of a 12-year-old trans child.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Okay.

I wanted to ask you the question because I know there's this whole debate around parental rights, and there are the rights of the child, which we've signed on to. I'm wondering if you could speak a bit to that.

[Daphne Dike-Hart]

I think I would bring it to my community, the Black community.

When you look at the rights that the child has, especially with these new laws that are being signed in, it's very hard. How many Black kids who are trans can walk up to their parents and say, “Hi, Mom; this is how I'm feeling”? If you don't get sent to conversion therapy, you're probably going to go for deliverance or they're going to send you to Africa or something. I don't know.

That's the kind of experience that we have, so kids, especially, are very afraid, and especially when they come from that kind of household in that box of, “You're learning it from TV. It's not something that you are,” and they keep hearing that. The only place that used to be safe for them was school—

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Right.

[Daphne Dike-Hart]

—where they could affirm who they are, and now teachers are being forced to out them.

You also have kids who, for example, were on sports teams, like the 12-year-old kid I spoke about, who is probably not going to be able to play basketball anymore. She was really hoping to get into the WNBA. That dream has been taken away from her and she doesn't have a say. She thinks Daphne is going to wave a magic wand and everything will be okay, but our hands are tied.

This is the reality when it comes to the actual trans kids, because without this support and without them being able to medically transition or stop puberty, some of them are willing to commit suicide, so we need to be careful.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Zipp, you seem like you have a pretty amazing mom.