Status of Women Committee on April 29th, 2022

[Stéfanie Sirois-Gauthier]

As was mentioned earlier, for some years now there have been a few more indigenous women in the mining industry, even though they are still a small minority. It's mainly men who work in this industry. Many, but not all, of the few women who decide to work in mining are subjected to abuse and violence, and this was condemned in the study by the Inuit Women's Association in March 2021.

Women who work in the industry often suffer serious trauma, but they don't want to speak out about their abusers, or are forced not to. This state of affairs strongly deters other women from doing this kind of work.

I'm going to answer your question by asking some other questions.

How is it possible to consult women if they are not working in this area? How can women be consulted when they're afraid to speak out because of the many barriers that prevent them from doing so? How can we go about finding these marginalized women in their own communities and in the cities?

I get the impression that my questions are a good answer to your question. It's very difficult for indigenous women not to be afraid of speaking out when an organization asks them questions. I think they find it very intimidating.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much.

My question is for Madame Doré-Nadeau.

I know that your organization works to mitigate violence against indigenous women. Can you discuss that a little bit, and also describe any interactions you've had with the extraction industry in your efforts to mitigate violence and assist with fighting against violence against indigenous women in communities?

[Viviane Doré-Nadeau]

We owe a lot to our involvement in the World March of Women, an international movement that we were able to put together with various indigenous women's organizations from around the world. In our struggle, we place a strong emphasis on the fact that we need to ask ourselves societal questions. For example, what kinds of developments and systems are we in favour of?

It's important to work on awareness, but various measures, including legislation, are needed to transform society. Earlier on, Ms. Sirois-Gauthier was talking about women who worked in the mines. One of our demands was for women to be able to work in the mines if a mining project was ever approved in the community. But then we learned that there were acts of violence. That's why we want policies introduced to combat violence against women. We also have policies about psychological and sexual harassment. Not only do these policies need to be applied, but women need to be able to have proper recourse when they make a complaint. We would also like them to be told about the forms of recourse available to them and the authorities who might be able to help them. In Quebec for example, there is the CNESST, a commission for occupational standards, equity, health and safety.

We spoke at length about the acceptability of some of the projects being launched. We are also asking why we haven't yet signed the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. As for the lack of recognition for indigenous peoples, the ongoing acts of violence and the existing systems, we think that it would be extremely valuable to have better collaboration and communication.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Sonia Sidhu]

Thank you, Ms. Gazan.

This is the end of our third round. In our fourth round, we'll go with five minutes for the CPC, five minutes for the Liberals, and two and a half minutes each for the Bloc and NDP.

We'll start with Ms. Ferrari for five minutes.

Michelle, please go ahead.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you so much, Madam Chair. I am actually going to pass my time to my colleague Ms. Kramp-Neuman.

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Thank you, Michelle.

This has been another moving hour and a half. I always find these committees kind of heart-wrenching. You hear all these different stories. I'll be quite honest. This is not something that I was raised around. I didn't talk a lot about it at school. It wasn't talked about a lot in my home as a young adult.

How do we engage and encourage and educate more people who are not hearing about this every day? I have the beauty and the ability to be on this committee today, but I don't think enough people are talking about this. We're starting, we're talking, and I applaud each and every one of you for all your efforts, because communication is healthy and being here today is huge. I know that so many of you are doing so much on the ground.

Very seldom is there a carte blanche approach to anything. There are a lot of different intricacies.

I'll pose my first question to Ms. Palmater.

In what ways are there different, distinct groups of indigenous women and girls, and how do they have different needs from one another? I don't anticipate that it's one carte blanche need.

[Dr. Pamela Palmater]

Thank you for the question. Obviously there are first nations, Métis and Inuit, but in particular amongst first nations, we're nation based: Mi'kmaq, Mohawk, Wet'suwet'en, all of those. We have different histories, different experiences, but—

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

I'm sorry to cut you off.

With that, how do we do it? What's the different plan?

[Dr. Pamela Palmater]

On a national level, it should be a crime to sexually violate indigenous women, whether they're first nation, Métis or Inuit. There's a certain number of things that the federal government can and should be doing that really isn't about distinctions but about how different nations want to go forward. It could be policing, whether they want to approve projects. That's up to those areas.

Some might want to go on a nation basis. The Mi'kmaq might want to say, “You need to deal with us as a nation,” but other areas, like Treaty No. 4, might say, “No, deal with us on a treaty area basis.”

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

If the government continues to pour more money, more money and more money without specific plans in place, are the plans working?

The money has been distributed at different times, in different budgets. Different studies have been done. What needs to be done differently? Clearly, it's not working. Things are still happening. What needs to be done differently?

[Dr. Pamela Palmater]

There are two things. One is the gross underfunding of all of these programs and services. It looks like a lot of money, but when you look at the actual population and what it covers, it's grossly underfunded across all socio-economic conditions. We know that through lots of litigation.

Number two, not only do we have to increase that funding so that it's not racially discriminatory, but we also have to put funding to where we're not putting funding. This is in things like supporting self-determination, the implementation of our laws, supporting indigenous women to be decision-makers, to be on every decision-making body that there is and to be able to have alternatives to pipelines. It can't simply be, “Here, it's a pipeline or you go to jail.” There has to be....

Maybe some indigenous women want to engage in green tech, green energy and all of these other things. It's about the paternalistic control of what our options are and not giving us any control.

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Is there a way that we can educate people with resource development? There were a lot of parallels you were drawing earlier in the meeting. Are there statistics to support that?

We know it's happening in some regard, but how do we educate the resource development? We need pipelines, so how do we balance that?

[Dr. Pamela Palmater]

We may or may not need pipelines in certain areas for certain purposes. We can't always presume that the answer is yes. Otherwise, that violates the legal principle of free, prior and informed consent.

The most fundamental thing we need to do moving forward, for indigenous women and girls, and for our indigenous nations, is to respect the right to say, yes; yes, with conditions; no, not right now, I'll reconsider it later; or absolute no. Until we get there, we won't ever stop the violence that is associated with forcing those things to happen where they shouldn't be happening. To accept that—

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Do you see a link between resource development and economic reconciliation?

[Dr. Pamela Palmater]

Most definitely. All of the social research shows that the first nations that have no suicide or lower rates of domestic violence, for example, are those that aren't focused on economic development at all costs. They're focused on self-determination, language revitalization, cultural restoration, land defence and all of those things. They're the ones that instill pride in who they are.

In many cases, we see some of the bands that are some of the richest have some of the worst socio-economic conditions, because economic development in and of itself doesn't necessarily solve the problem when you don't get to change—

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Do you see a link between poverty and violence?

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Sonia Sidhu]

I'm sorry to interrupt.

Thank you, Ms. Kramp-Neuman.

Next we'll go to Ms. Lambropoulos for five minutes.

Emmanuella, go ahead, please.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'll continue my round of questions from earlier. My first question was going to go to Madame Étienne, but will now go to Madame Sirois-Gauthier.

According to Ms. Étienne, indigenous women should be consulted before, during and after projects are started up in their region.

My next question is for all the witnesses, because they've all touched upon the subject.

What approach might the government and the big companies that develop resources in these lands take to consult indigenous women? Could you give us more details about how they should go about it?

I'd like Ms. Sirois-Gauthier to answer first, but if anyone else has any comments afterwards, they shouldn't hesitate to comment.

[Stéfanie Sirois-Gauthier]

Thank you for the question.

We are indeed talking about consultations before, during and after project implementation. Beforehand, when a project plan is in development, the neighbouring communities and indigenous women should be consulted about the right to free, prior and informed consent. It's also important to make sure that everything is consistent with their values and that the development is culturally appropriate.

During project implementation, things don't necessarily always go as planned. In any development project, as with other areas, changes or other events can happen at any time. It's therefore important to monitor the situation. We need to ask what happened after the project launch that led to what's happening now, to how things are going, and whether the initial commitments are being acted upon.

Once a project is under way, it needs to be re-evaluated. This means determining whether the initial commitments are still being acted upon. When a decision is made to launch a project, everything might look wonderful and perfect, and appear to be proceeding as expected, but in reality, once it's in progress, human rights are violated, women are subject to violence, and the environment and natural resources are not respected, contrary to what was in the initial agreement.

It's therefore truly important to ensure that indigenous populations, experts, representative organizations, and the communities themselves, are involved from the start of the project to the end, on ongoing basis. The honour of the Crown and consent are violated when there is only token consultation with the community. They say that it's been done, in order to tick that box, but it has only symbolic value.

That's what we don't like. It's happening today in all the development projects around the world. The situation has a direct impact on indigenous populations. It's most unfortunate that constitutional law recognizes it without really delivering on the promises.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you.

Are there any other witnesses who would like to add something?

Ms. Quinn, you spoke to us about how, in a lot of these communities, there is displacement that occurs because of the projects and there aren't enough buses. People get bused into the cities, and that is where lots of the crimes happen, a lot of the victimization happens. There are lots of issues in here that were touched on, like the fact that hitchhiking is obviously not safe and that there aren't enough buses.

What can you suggest to the committee? You described the situation well, but what suggestions can you make that would limit the danger in this type of activity? Obviously, displacement shouldn't be happening, but if it occurs, in what ways can it become safer for these communities and for these women?

[Kathleen Quinn]

Thank you for that question. I have a couple of suggestions.

One, there could be investment in developing local transportation routes. Greyhound abandoned the west completely, and there's nothing, so I think some investment in local companies, local initiatives, maybe indigenous companies running the buses so that they create that safety and that's built in.

Another is, for example, in the big city, the role of the native friendship centres to create what we call “new in town”, going out and finding people who are at risk as they migrate into the cities. One of our organizations here, Bent Arrow Traditional Healing Society, does that. They go actively looking for people who appear to be new so that they are not preyed upon by gangs, drug dealers or sexual predators, and then they link them into community and healthy resources.

I think the biggest challenge is around safe housing for indigenous girls and women coming into towns as well as a big city like Edmonton. We really need to be attentive to that. Edmonton does not have an indigenous women's shelter, but Calgary does.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Sonia Sidhu]

Thank you, Ms. Quinn.

Thank you, Emmanuella.

Next, we go to the Bloc for two and a half minutes.

Madame Larouche, the floor is yours.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Once again, I'd like to thank the witnesses for the work they have been doing on an everyday basis with women and girls. It's remarkable.

I'd like to end on a note that might be a bit more positive.

Ms. Doré-Nadeau, we've harshly criticized situations abroad in connection with mining companies. I'd like to know, however, whether you have heard anything about companies that might have introduced measures to limit the harmful consequences of their own operations. By this I mean resources for women and girls, and in particular indigenous women and girls.

If there are any, can you tell us about any positive examples, and how successful the measures introduced have been?

[Viviane Doré-Nadeau]

Thank you very much for the question.

Unfortunately, I don't have an answer to those questions. We've discussed at length the need to conduct research. It would indeed be very interesting to document companies that are behaving in an exemplary fashion and that could have a positive influence on practices and legislation we could use here in Canada.

I'm sorry that I'm unable to answer your question.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

From that I conclude that we need to continue to look for positive examples that we can draw on for inspiration. Let's hope that happens. Thank you very much for your testimony, Ms. Doré-Nadeau.

Ms. Quinn mentioned friendship centres in her last answer.

I would therefore now like to ask Ms. Sirois-Gauthier about her organization and the friendship centres that assist women, including indigenous women.

How important are these organizations in connection with the study we are now conducting?