Evidence of meeting #18 for Status of Women in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was judges.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Senior Counsel, Criminal Law and Policy Section, Policy Sector, Department of Justice
Thank you.
As departmental officials, we're not really in a position to offer amendments. We're able to speak technically to what the bill does and what the effects of those things would be.
If there were amendments that members of the committee wanted to ask us about, similarly we would be able to talk about [Technical difficulty—Editor] technically how that would change [Technical difficulty—Editor]
Conservative
Michelle Ferreri Conservative Peterborough—Kawartha, ON
Sorry, you just cut out there on that last sentence. Could you repeat that for me, Shannon?
Senior Counsel, Criminal Law and Policy Section, Policy Sector, Department of Justice
Yes. I'm sorry about that. I'm having some unstable Internet issues today.
We're not able to offer opinions in terms of what types of amendments we think the government should make, but we are able to speak to the technical effects of the bill, as well as any technical effects that any specific amendments might have.
Conservative
Michelle Ferreri Conservative Peterborough—Kawartha, ON
Okay. Thank you so much.
How much time do I have left, Chair?
Conservative
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio
Okay. Fantastic.
Actually, if you don't mind, I'm going to take those 30 seconds of time for a quick question.
What is the difference between the judicial council institute and the judicial council, if we're looking at—
Counsel, Judicial Affairs Section, Public Law and Legislative Services Sector, Department of Justice
Certainly. I think the two organizations that you're mentioning are the Canadian Judicial Council, the CJC, and then there's the National Judicial Institute, the NJI.
The CJC is an organization that's made up of all of the chief justices across Canada. They're responsible for setting the professional development requirements for federally appointed judges. They collaborate closely with the other organization you mentioned, the NJI, or National Judicial Institute. The NJI is the primary provider of judicial education. It's also a judge-led independent organization.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio
Awesome. Thank you so much.
I'm now going to pass it over to Jenna Sudds. Jenna, you have six minutes.
Is she there? No?
Emmanuella, go ahead. We'll pass the time over to you.
Liberal
Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC
Thank you, and thank you to our witnesses for being here with us.
I'll begin by saying that our previous witnesses, Mrs. Kagan and her husband—Mrs. Kagan is the mother of Keira—spoke a lot about the failures of the current system and the lack of education that judges currently have when it comes to intimate partner violence and domestic abuse in general, even when it relates to children. I don't know much about how things work currently in the justice system when it comes to violence, but can you maybe paint a picture of what that would look like right now?
I know that up until age 12 a child is not allowed to decide whether they're going to live with their mom or dad. They can't choose which parent they're going to live with. In some cases, even when there is abuse, the judge still decides that both parents have custody. How would a decision like that come to be? What other protections do you believe currently exist to ensure that the child is not abused or is protected from a father such as Keira's father?
Senior Counsel, Criminal Law and Policy Section, Policy Sector, Department of Justice
Thank you.
Just to be sure that I understand your question, are you wondering about how, in custody cases, the decisions are made about children and the protections that exist for children?
Senior Counsel, Criminal Law and Policy Section, Policy Sector, Department of Justice
Okay.
When there is violence with a family member, there are different ways that children can be protected by the justice system. There are different areas of law that have different provisions that could be provided to protect children.
For example, there's the child protection system. That's an area of provincial jurisdiction. In each province and territory, there is legislation that governs the protection of children. If the child protection authorities felt that a child was at risk, then you would look to the legislation in that jurisdiction to see what types of measures might be needed to protect a child.
In terms of divorce, in the Divorce Act [ITechnical difficulty—Editor] issues around criteria in the Divorce Act are referred to as the “best interests of the child” test. The Divorce Act has a list of factors. The primary factor is the child's physical, emotional and psychological safety and well-being.
Then in the Criminal Code, if there were an allegation that criminal offences had been committed or if there were fear that a criminal offence might be committed, if charges were laid against an individual, then they could be held in custody, and—
Liberal
Senior Counsel, Criminal Law and Policy Section, Policy Sector, Department of Justice
Sure. I know you're short on time.
Liberal
Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC
What type of evidence is considered in terms of these cases? Obviously, it wasn't in the best interest of Keira to be with her father.
As a teacher, I taught students who would come up to me and open up about their family situations. Many of them were experiencing violence at their father's home, for example. The courts were not helping in any way. In many cases they had video evidence that they apparently weren't allowed to show in court, and different things like that. I don't know if that's just one case or something that one of my students was told.
I'd like to see if you have anything to say on that to clarify or let us know what evidence is considered in these cases.
Senior Counsel, Criminal Law and Policy Section, Policy Sector, Department of Justice
Just to clarify, if we're talking about custody and access cases between parents if there's a breakdown in the family, there's different evidence that a court might consider. They consider the evidence given in testimony by the parents. The court could consider the child's views and preferences. They can also consider expert witness evidence—experts that might meet with the parties and make assessments.
Liberal
Liberal
Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC
This is my final question.
You've seen Keira's law, which is Bill C-233. I'm wondering if you can tell us if you believe that this bill would help children and women in these situations in the future. Would it help empower women when it comes to divorce and when it comes to an abusive partner?
Senior Counsel, Criminal Law and Policy Section, Policy Sector, Department of Justice
Thank you for your question.
Unfortunately, we're not really able to offer our own personal opinions about the advisability of the measures. We are here to provide legal information about their meaning and effect.
Liberal
Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC
Based on your knowledge and given what is in this bill, would it help make the system more efficient in dealing with these cases?
Senior Counsel, Criminal Law and Policy Section, Policy Sector, Department of Justice
Based on my knowledge of what's in the bill, it could have the effect of increasing the knowledge of judges' provisions. It could remind judges of certain considerations that they should take in considering safety factors when there are offences against intimate partners.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio
Thank you so much.
We're going to now pass it over to Andréanne for six minutes.
You have the floor.
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I thank the witnesses for trying to answer our many questions this afternoon.
It was said earlier that this bill was consistent with what is happening in Quebec with respect to domestic violence between intimate partners.
Can you explain how the new public policy will be implemented when it is adopted? Are you going to be inspired by what Quebec did, after they passed their new law on monitoring bracelets? Will there be a time limit for implementation? How will it work?