Status of Women Committee on May 6th, 2022

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I would actually credit Jennifer and Philip for their efforts in contacting organizations and MPs across Canada. I have rarely seen the kind of support I see for Keira's law for anything else that I've worked on, and it's really to Jennifer and Philip's credit. It's Women's Shelters Canada. It is lawyers like Pamela Cross and Dr. Jaffe, who appeared at this committee and spoke in favour of what we're trying to do with Keira's law. It's a movement that has started in Keira's memory.

I'm sorry. The chair got me a little bit emotional with her questions, but we really can do this. Keira wanted to change the world, and she is doing that through this bill. She has started a movement across our country that will actually change the world.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you, Ms. Damoff.

My next question is for Mr. Viater or Dr. Kagan.

In your view, how will this bill protect in-need or at-risk populations so they feel safe and protected?

[Philip Viater]

Let me start by saying, number one, that if judges are able to understand what abuse looks like in the year 2022—that it's not just bumps and bruises and black eyes—that is one of the first and biggest things that is super-important, because right now when judges dismiss them, all they've done is enabled an abuser to continue almost in perpetuity, with the abuser saying, “The judge said it's okay; I can continue this.”

Similarly, if judges start to understand the trauma responses of victims, then they'll understand that a victim's actions may not be nefarious in nature but are actually protective of their child. These are the types of things that are really going to protect people, because judges are the final gatekeepers and they have to be the ones to take that final stand to say, “No, this is what's going to happen with your child.”

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

You have 20 seconds, Sonia.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Dr. Kagan, we know there are systemic problems. In your view, what are the changes that need to take place to shift this culture?

[Dr. Jennifer Kagan-Viater]

I think this is a first start.

I think victims and survivors being comfortable with coming forward to talk about this is a very good step. It's not an easy thing to come forward as a survivor of violence. We need societal acceptance and awareness and less stigma and less blaming of the victim, and people in positions of authority who are not validating what's gone on, and an acknowledgement that abuse is wrong. We need that zero tolerance of abuse from all types of leadership.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you very much.

We're now going to pass it over for the next six minutes to Andréanne Larouche.

Andréanne, you have six minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Kagan‑Viater and Mr. Viater, I would like to start by offering my deepest condolences. As a recent mother of a little girl myself, I can only imagine the pain you must have felt as parents. This shows how intimate partner violence affects not only the partners, but the whole family. We have had several witnesses say it before the committee. My thoughts are with you.

Ms. Dhillon, thank you very much for introducing Bill C‑233. You've heard me talk a lot about coercive control, as has Ms. Damoff.

I had the opportunity to meet a survivor who was receiving the stories of other survivors as part of her blog Les mots de Myra. If we look at all those stories, it becomes clear that the notion of coercive control affords a much broader and holistic view of the domestic violence issue. You've heard me talk about this many times.

I'm pleased that you are introducing Bill C‑233, and it will come as no surprise to you that my party and I will, of course, be supporting it.

In a sense, the bill follows in the footsteps of what the Quebec government recently put in place. It's in line with what's been done in the National Assembly. We were looking forward to seeing Ottawa get there. However, Quebec has already moved perhaps a little more quickly. In short, I want to tell you that we very much support this new public policy, which is consistent with Quebecers' values.

However, I must stress that this improved legislation will not solve all domestic violence issues. It's not a quick fix. Several witnesses cautioned the committee against thinking that one measure, like the anti-approach bracelet, for example, is going to solve everything by waving a magic wand. Many witnesses have told us we are going to need to add several other measures to curb this violence.

We know that the Quebec government has already announced plans to implement the anti-approach bracelet as part of a set of 14 other measures under way to curb intimate partner violence.

To ensure the continued implementation of these measures, I want you to know how important it is that health care funding to Quebec and the provinces continue to increase to maintain adequate services for victims of domestic violence. Several witnesses have mentioned it. Many organizations can provide support to victims, and their services must go hand in hand with measures like the anti-approach bracelet.

Many witnesses have emphasized how critical these organizations are. What are your thoughts on it?

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

I thank you, Ms. Larouche, for all the work you yourself have done on coercive control. You are right to say that I have heard you talk extensively about this subject.

You've just raised a really important issue.

I'd like to add one point to your comments about the monitoring bracelet.

As a Quebecker, it is with some pride that I can say that Quebec has really put measures in place to address the issue of domestic violence. For example, in March, the Quebec government announced that it was launching the first pilot project for a court specializing in sexual violence and domestic violence at the Salaberry-de-Valleyfield courthouse. This is the first jurisdiction in the world to set up such a court. The work that the province is doing is really important. I hope it will continue and that we can work hand in hand with all the provinces and territories.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

You are absolutely right.

In fact, I am proud to say that one of the specialized court pilot projects will be implemented here in Granby, in the heart of my riding.

The thinking behind the implementation of specialized courts is precisely based on the question of the training of judges. It is essential that they be better trained.

I just want to point out that coercive control is only addressed in relation to the training of judges and that, as you say, the amendment to the Criminal Code that is proposed in the bill that has been tabled does not address the criminalization of coercive control. I heard you say that this was the beginning of a reflection. Yet a recommendation to that effect has been made by many experts, on numerous occasions, to the Standing Committee on the Status of Women and the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights.

At this point, what is the reason you have not incorporated the recommendation to criminalize coercive control into Bill C‑233?

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

I will let the next panel answer that question.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

You say that the expertise of the Department of Justice was really called upon.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Exactly.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

You said that in Quebec, with the recent adoption of Bill 24, the deployment of the device is starting now and will last until next year to cover the whole territory.

The heart of the matter is still the deployment of the device. How, according to your bill, will the electronic device be implemented at the federal level?

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Can you repeat the question?

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

According to your bill, how will the monitoring bracelet be implemented at the federal level?

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

It will be up to the provinces and territories to implement it, as they know best how to handle the technical details

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

There are many. The monitoring bracelets involve cell coverage. We need to make sure they can work everywhere. We've talked about this problem. No matter how many people wear monitoring bracelets, if there is a lack of cell coverage, some victims will not be protected.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

This won't solve all of the problems, and there's definitely a problem with cell coverage, but it will at least be a start. It will put in the Criminal Code the outstanding work that the Province of Quebec is doing when it comes to sexual and domestic violence.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Perfect. Thank you so much.

We're now going to move to Leah Gazan for six minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much, Chair.

I'd like to start by saying that it's so nice to see you again, Dr. Kagan. I'd like to say just how much I admire your courage to use your experience to lift up the memory of your daughter in such a heroic way. It's truly touching, and I want to honour you today for that tremendous courage. Mr. Viater, I know that this has also impacted you personally, so I also want to honour you in your courage, love and compassion.

To MP Dhillon and MP Damoff, thank you for putting this forward. As a woman in the House of Commons, there's not a lot of space for us. In creating space to talk about violence and things that we have to do to end violence, we need to take up that space. I want to thank you for taking up that space in the House of Commons.

My first question is for MP Dhillon.

We've been talking in FEWO about how there's great cultural diversity in terms of responses to trauma, harm and fear, and also how we express that. I absolutely support this bill in terms of training for judges, but how are we going to ensure that the training that judges receive allows them to have a cross-cultural lens when making those determinations?

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

I'll let MP Damoff answer that.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

That was one of the things we talked about when we did Rona Ambrose's bill and then the Judges Act. I had the privilege of sitting on the justice committee. If you recall, the bill actually added in the last version of systemic racism. Originally, we added social context to it as well, to ensure the types of things that you're talking about. We can't prescribe what judges will do in their training, but we can do as much as we can in the wording in the legislation.

I think those issues you've talked about, MP Gazan, are so important. It is there in previous wording, but I'm pretty sure the judges are watching right now. I think we can all send a very strong message to them that they need to ensure they're speaking to the right organizations and the right people to make sure that their training is reflective of everyone across Canada.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much for that.

There was just a question about cell service and the effectiveness of the e-bracelets. It is concerning. I'm going to give you an example, because I think this is a very important initiative: If you're in a remote community in northern Manitoba, it takes police in some communities an hour to get there. I'm wondering about a couple of things, because I do think this is critical.

Are there active steps to make this more equitable in terms of being able to access this safety measure? How is that being coordinated with services, so if somebody is experiencing domestic violence, there's the ability to have a quick response?

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

The government is rolling out cell service across the country. I don't think we want to give women false hope that this is going to provide e-monitoring for every woman across Canada, because it won't, and we know that. Indigenous communities in particular are very poorly served by Internet service. It's important that we also provide services in those communities. That's why the work that FEWO has been doing is important, along with the recommendations you're making, and Minister Ien, quite frankly, is prioritizing services in the communities.

I know you only have limited time, so I'll give it back to you.

We need to take a whole-of-government approach to this. This is one aspect of it, but we need to be cognizant that this is not going to solve the problem. To your point exactly, we need women to be able to access safe supports in their communities in a timely manner.