Status of Women Committee on May 13th, 2022

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I don't think those accusations were fair. I've never been a partisan member. I've never used any issue for political gain, ever. I don't think that's fair.

I think that it was the right moment to bring it up, especially coming out of the situation in Ukraine where hundreds of women have been raped by Russians and have gotten to the Polish border and are not given the right to abort. They are currently not given this option, and they have to live with this trauma and carry it through. Many of them are not being given the option. I think it's the right moment to be bringing it forward. It's absolutely not political.

I stand up for a woman's right to choose because I believe that.... I was a teacher. As a teacher, I worked with a lot of young people and many young girls—12 to 14 years old—who made a mistake and didn't want to go through with the pregnancy when they found out they were pregnant. I supported them, because I support young people. I support young women and their ability to fully develop and become whatever they want and have that right without having to deal with the consequences of one mistake or something that might have happened to them against their will.

It's definitely an important conversation and one we should have around this table at the status of women committee. I don't take away from the important conversations that we've been having on other issues, as well, but to say this isn't the moment to be discussing it when it's being openly debated elsewhere—very close to Canada—and when we see demonstrations happening on the Hill right here in Canada.... I think that's not an accurate representation of when we should or should not be moving this motion.

Again, I don't take it well when it's called a partisan move on my part, because it's absolutely not. Fighting for women's rights is what we should be doing on this committee. As my colleague Anita mentioned, this should have been moved quickly, in my view.

I know your views, Madam Chair. I've heard you on this, as well, and I know where you stand on this issue, so it's surprising to me—the way you've taken it. You've spun it around to make it seem like I'm doing something wrong.

Those are my thoughts.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

I will take the floor to take the opportunity to say that I apologize to you, Emmanuella. I do apologize. This is not personal to you. I know the excellent job you do.

I'll pass it over to Leah.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much, Madam Chair.

I just want to start out by saying that I don't think it's my position to assume the intent of anybody in the room. You have done a very outstanding job as chair. I'm really honoured to be part of a committee where we actually get things done.

That aside, as the status of women committee, with that wording, amendments could happen. It's important that we stand up for the rights of women that are stipulated in the charter without qualification. We're the only ones doing it in the House of Commons. There are very few of us who are standing up for the rights of women, including a right that's been affirmed through the Supreme Court and is part of our Canadian charter: to be able to have a safe and accessible abortion.

I certainly was in support of the motion without thought, as it's my obligation as a member of Parliament. It's without question. I just want to share that I am surprised. I don't really see this, as well, as a partisan issue. I support the motion to adjourn for now, so we can continue getting the bill through. I do think this is a critical discussion to have in committee. I don't think this is a discussion that we can sidestep. I think it's something critical. However, we need to do it. We need to discuss this as a committee.

I have a final thought: The most difficult changes come from difficult discussions. I think, because our committee has done such a good job—even in accepting my study, which is a very difficult study for people to go through—I have faith in the committee members that we can get through some of these discussions, which may be difficult for some. I just want to leave it there.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you very much. There are a few more things.

Once again, I do really appreciate the committee. Anita, I know I strongly offended you and I do apologize for that. This is a very difficult discussion to have and I guess the thing is that we just came out of Bill C-233 that we are so passionate about, and I don't mean to cry but I think that the work we needed to get done got done.

Anytime I see things brought up like this, when we're not working together, when we know—and I think everybody in this room knows—we want what's right for women.... We do. We all do. That is why Bill C-233 went through like that, because we actually were all working together.

My fear is not the status of women committee; my fear is when those people you do talk of weaponize this. Those are my concerns.

Perhaps you've never been a Conservative woman like me who gets yelled at by people who don't understand where I stand. Maybe that's part of the problem. We do need to have a bigger discussion and, you know, my language was very offensive, so I do apologize to you, Anita. It was very offensive, and I think it's because I have fought for the same rights that everyone like you, Anita, have fought for. I will continue to fight for those rights.

I don't trust the people outside this room to be able to have the adult conversation that we need to have, and so my thing is that the political football never be in this room. It is the moment that we hit outside of this room. It's the moment that becomes the headline, yet people are dying. We know this and that's my concern here, that we are starting the ball rolling down a really steep hill where the only people who lose are the women and never anybody else.

When I say things aren't going to change, it's because in reality we know things aren't going to change in the next three years and during that three years we should be doing work. We know we're in a government where all around that entire chamber, you will have support and it doesn't matter what side you're on. I will be standing along with those women just like I would today on a vote. I will be standing, just as I always have, and my concern is that when we go over there, that is where the people who are here and here don't want to talk.

We know that there's a whole bunch of us here, but we can't have that adult conversation because as a person, a Conservative woman, I've had it politicized for probably 25 years and that's the problem.

If I knew we were doing the right thing. I would be 100% about it, but I can tell you that when I get into that House, just like last Wednesday, I will have to leave because I'm disgusted when I have people yelling at me, just like I yell at them, but it's very hard.

Jenna, I see your hand up.

[Jenna Sudds, Liberal, Kanata—Carleton, ON]

Thank you, Chair, and I feel compelled, first of all, to acknowledge the success that we've all just witnessed in moving through Bill C-233. With that, thanks to everyone because I think it really demonstrates the spirit of the work we do here at this committee and how well we do it together, and I think it's important to acknowledge that.

I thank Emmanuella for bringing this motion forward. I do think it's obviously an important discussion. Having said that, and as Leah so eloquently put it, hard things are hard. This is a hard topic. This is a hard discussion. I don't think we're going to be able to resolve it or to have as fulsome discussion today on this particular issues as perhaps we need to, but I appreciate the brief discussion we've had and I think that at this point the next step is to move to adjourn. I don't think we're going to get any further than that at this point, and we can revisit this at an appropriate time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

That was a dilatory motion there to adjourn. So I'm going to ask you if you could record a vote.

(Motion agree to: yeas 10; nays 0)

Go ahead, Pam.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I want to take a moment, on behalf of all of us, to thank the chair. Thank you for sharing your perspective and for working the way you do across party lines. We've worked together for almost seven years now, and it's really important to recognize your passion and commitment.

I know this position of chair wasn't something you wanted at the time, but I don't think anyone could do it any better than you do, Karen. I speak for all of us in saying that you bring a really balanced approach to what you do, and if there were more people in politics who treated issues in the way you do, our country would be a better place.

I just want to put that on the record.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Does that come with hugs? Thank you very much, Pam.

The meeting is adjourned.