Status of Women Committee on Sept. 22nd, 2022

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you so much.

I do have another question for Dr. Neckoway and Dr. Brownlie.

In your testimony, you spoke about land and water and the intrinsic connection between that and culture and gender. Usually when we think about land and water, we think of physical health. We don't always think about culture and certainly we don't think about culture in terms of how women are more connected.

I wonder if you could tell us a little bit more about that, looking at the potential avenues where, rather than causing harm, we can actually make this something that will have benefit.

[Jarvis Brownlie]

We've been thinking a lot about solutions as we've worked with communities. The thing that our community partners talk about all the time is culture, the harm to culture because of residential schools and other colonial histories, but very much because of the hydro dams, and that's ongoing damage. They talk about the fact that restoring the culture is essential to heal the communities and reverse some of the negative effects of colonialism.

In doing so, we can restore women to the position that they held in Cree societies before colonization, which was a position of honour, authority and equality. Women were seen to have a special connection to water, partly associated with the water in the womb in which babies are carried and the water that breaks when babies are born. Women also traditionally were responsible for being midwives, of course, bringing children into the world, and also, at the time of death, caring for the deceased. All of that involved water, so there's this very holistic body of understanding that associates women and water, and women having a special responsibility to water.

You'll see that with women holding water walks in these times, trying to protect and heal the water.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Sonia Sidhu]

Thank you.

Now I want to move to Madam Larouche.

You have six minutes, Andréanne.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I thank all the witnesses for being with us this afternoon for the continuation of this study, which comes in a particular context. Indeed, we are a few days away from September 30, the National Day for Truth and Reconciliation. It is in this context that we are gathered today.

Ms. Smith, I would like you to tell us a little bit more about how this date, which you mentioned, could relate to our study. When you institute a national day, you hope that it's not just another holiday and that it's used for learning.

In the context of today's study, what would you like us to think about? What connection could we make to September 30?

[Lisa J. Smith]

That's an excellent question. I apologize for not speaking in French.

I wrote an article today on that very issue. Of course the Truth and Reconciliation Commission released 94 calls to action, and those were obligations on governments and civil society, but in my opinion, truth and reconciliation is everybody's obligation. You and I have a role to play in that. It's decolonizing your thoughts.

In this committee, when you go back and you reflect on our testimonies and read the reports, you deconstruct. I went to law school. I have formal colonial education, so I am consistently trying to decolonize those thoughts.

I'm going to share a story with you briefly, honourable Chair. I was in a meeting and I was humiliated, but that's a part of truth and reconciliation. I had said to a chief that the Supreme Court of Canada said whatever it was they said, and I said, “That's the law. That's the reality.” The chief looked at me and said, “Yes, according to the Supreme Court of Canada.”

We have to question these things. We have to decolonize our thoughts and what we knew. That's the process of truth and reconciliation. It's not supposed to be easy. It's supposed to be hard. It's supposed to be reflective.

I ask everyone on September 30 to reflect, to question things that you took for granted your entire life. That's not easy, but that's all we can ask of you.

I want everyone to remember we're all in this together. We're all fighting the same fight, so we need to lean on each other, and we need to grieve. I think grieving is a part of truth and reconciliation as well. I know the council of truth and reconciliation has an interactive map. I encourage everyone to look at that map, to look at how plentiful residential schools were, and to look at the facts therein and have an intimate knowledge of that, and grieve that. Then, go back to committee, read your reports with that lens and question what you always took for granted. Like I said, it's not easy, but it's worthwhile.

Thank you.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Ms. Smith, thank you for your testimony, which reminds us of the importance of this September 30 date. I hope we will have another opportunity to speak, perhaps in a second round, during which I will have further questions for you.

Professor Brownlie, you mentioned the link between water and women. To me, it is completely absurd and unfair that in 2022, so many indigenous communities still do not even have access to clean water, which is essential for life. This creates a form of impoverishment, and the link between poverty and violence has been proven.

I would like to hear you explain the importance of the government taking action to provide clean water to those communities that still do not have access to it.

[Jarvis Brownlie]

Thank you very much for your question. I would like to answer in French, but my French is too rusty, so I will answer in English—but it's nice to hear French.

The fundamental problem with drinkable water is that we have contaminated our rivers and lakes. I hear from the community members that Ramona and I work with. For thousands of years if they needed water, they would dip their cup in the water and drink. The rivers and lakes in northern Manitoba used to be as clear as glass. You could see all the way to the bottom. Now they are mud soup, full of chunks of mud and whole dead trees, dead animals, and debris from the hydro dams and the water level manipulations.

We wouldn't need water treatment centres in these communities if we weren't destroying the water and the land. This is where extractive industries, again, are something that we need to overhaul. We need to do things differently because that will be the solution: if we just let the lakes and rivers return to the healthy state they used to be in.

At the same time, I agree that until that happens, it is a national disgrace that we have whole communities that don't have drinkable water. I know that the government has committed to ensuring that all communities do have drinkable water, but we are not there yet.

I just heard from one of our community members, as I asked them what they wanted us to say to you all today. One was talking about the burden every day on women. The women carry the burden of trying to ensure they have drinking water every day for their families.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Sonia Sidhu]

Thank you.

Now we will move to Leah Gazan.

Go ahead, Leah, for six minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much.

My first question is for Dr. Jarvis Brownlie. It's so good to see my friend here.

In the last Parliament we passed Bill C-15 to see the adoption and implementation of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People, which includes article 22:

1. Particular attention shall be paid to the rights and special needs of indigenous elders, women, youth, children and persons with disabilities in the implementation of this Declaration. 2. States shall take measures, in conjunction with indigenous peoples, to ensure that indigenous women and children enjoy the full protection and guarantees against all forms of violence and discrimination.

We also accepted the calls for justice that came out of the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls. I want to point specifically to call for justice 13.1:

We call upon all resource-extraction and development industries to consider the safety and security of Indigenous women, girls, and 2SLGBTQQIA people, as well as their equitable benefit from development, at all stages of project planning, assessment, implementation, management, and monitoring.

Where are we at? I'd say we're failing, particularly because I put in an Order Paper question on June 20, asking specifically about what progress the government has made towards a benefit agreement that ensures the security and safety of indigenous women and girls and 2SLGBTQQIA+. What activities have been co-developed to mitigate this current crisis of violence? How much attention has been placed on supporting an analysis of gender-disaggregated data? How much money has been spent through the aboriginal community safety plan?

You know, to my disappointment actually, most of the money has been spent on training in resource extraction, which is great, but we can't talk about economic benefit without talking about social costs. Certainly, it's costing the safety of indigenous women and girls and diverse-gender folks.

In fact, currently in this area, for the whole country, under $13 million a year is being spent to address this crisis.

One of the things you mentioned was the impact, the burden that is on women, particularly in hydro-affected communities in Manitoba. You've also come up with policies and solutions. I'm wondering what recommendations you have for solutions to end this kind of violence. What do you think needs to be done to really critically address this ongoing genocide?

[Jarvis Brownlie]

Thank you, Leah, for the question.

I think Ramona and I will both answer. Ramona, I think, will have some thoughts on the funds and resources for cultural programming.

Just in terms of changing the situation, these communities need to have a say. UNDRIP says that indigenous people have the right to control their territories. They have the right to self-determination. They have the right to decide what happens in their territories. They have the right to free, prior and informed consent.

Many of the hydro dams are 50 years old, so it's a fait accompli. What we're saying is that things can still be done differently. The dams aren't going to be removed, but the water level manipulations are a big part of the problem. If Manitoba Hydro would work with communities, including women, and consult and really listen, we could have major improvements. There's a program under which they depart from the original water levels allowable. If we could go back to the original water levels, that would help a lot.

Ramona, do you want to talk about—

Oh, sorry.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I'm sorry but I just want to ask a question specifically to Dr. Neckoway.

One of the things we heard in earlier testimony was that free, prior and informed consent absolutely doesn't happen often, and even when consent occurs, often it's absent women's voices.

Would you agree with that statement? If not, could you please expand?

[Ramona Neckoway]

That's a complicated question.

I think there certainly has been an absence of women. I think that's partly due to the structures that are being used in the consent process. Again, when we think about the level of education in the communities, not everybody speaks English as their first language. There are a lot of pressures that may impact the ability to provide consent or even provide enough of a description so that folks know what's going on in the communities. That can be problematic at times. I haven't investigated that myself, but from having conversations and from the work that we've done with people, I think an observation that can be drawn is that there isn't a lot of direct involvement of women in that process.

If I could just chime in, I know you asked Mr. Brownlie about possible solutions—

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Sonia Sidhu]

Thank you, Ms. Neckoway.

Thank you, Leah.

We are moving now to our second round, starting with Dominique Vien.

You have five minutes. Go ahead, Dominique.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Good afternoon, everyone. I thank the witnesses for being here this afternoon.

What I am very interested in is finding a way to bring everyone together around a common goal: to end violence against women and girls. How can we strengthen the leadership role of women? There's a lot of talk about that this afternoon.

I would also like to hear from the witnesses about the resource companies, civil society, police, law enforcement present in the territory, and municipalities. How can we bring all these people together? We're talking about broad principles, but we must be pragmatic. How do we go about changing the trend and the situation quickly and concretely?

Ms. Smith, I would invite you to answer first.

[Lisa J. Smith]

That's a powerful question, and I thank you for asking it.

I'll touch on a couple of things. You mentioned a common goal and asked how we get there together. I do want to say that we need to encourage men and boys to be a part of this discussion. You know, there is a toxic masculinity, and we need men and boys to feel a part of this discussion as well. We need them to feel safe to be emotional. Under that umbrella of toxic masculinity, a lot of times men and boys don't feel comfortable in emotional spaces, so they need to be a part of this fight as well. I think that will help bring a common goal, if we all work together and not just segregate women and gender-diverse people, but also bring men and boys into that discussion as well. At NWAC, we have tool kits on toxic masculinity that can be used in communities.

It's such a good point, and I think, as we're coming up, this theme, if we look through the lens of reconciliation.... Let's focus on—and I think it's a common goal people can rally behind—economic reconciliation. Many of these issues are because of poverty and because women, specifically, aren't benefiting from resource development. The MMIWG report calls that “economic marginalization”, and that's one of the reasons we find ourselves in this genocide. If we fill that gap and get our men and boys in on this and rally behind economic reconciliation, then—

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

And how do we do that, Ms. Smith?

[Lisa J. Smith]

I think....

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

It's complicated, I know; if it were simple, we would not be here this afternoon.

[Lisa J. Smith]

I'm trying really hard to foster positive relationships with police, with civil society and these sorts of things. Maybe it's not this simple, but I'm going to put it in a simple way. I think that, as Canadians, we all want the same thing at the end of the day, right? We want our women, our mothers, our sisters, our daughters, our nieces, to stop being killed, to stop being murdered. I think that's where we start. It is a common goal, at the end of the day, for all of us. We all speak different languages. You know, the police—I'm a former Crown prosecutor—we speak a different language, so it's having that common language. So often, we lawyers try—

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Ms. Smith, you say that you go to the police, among others. To your knowledge, are there any efforts that are being made with the boards of directors of large corporations or municipal councils, where there are indigenous women and natural resource development projects, to talk to these people and make them aware? They have to be involved too.

[Lisa J. Smith]

I honestly don't see much action on the municipal side of things because, as you know, the calls for justice and the calls to action really focus on provincial and federal policy-makers. Also, law societies and civil society in that regard are not seeing as many obligations put on industry or municipalities. I think you identified something really good there, and I think maybe you're answering your own question. Maybe that's how we need to all come together.

I think when we tried with Bill C-15, which has been brought up with UNDRIP being a part.... Canada is leading the way in UNDRIP implementation. When we align all policies and legislation with UNDRIP, that's the answer. It's part of the answer. It's more complicated than that, but I think we're going in the right direction in that regard.

You're right. More attention and awareness and education need to be focused on the community level.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Sonia Sidhu]

Thank you, Ms. Smith.

Thank you, Dominique.

Now we move to Jenna for five minutes.

[Jenna Sudds, Liberal, Kanata—Carleton, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Thank you to all of the witnesses for the excellent work you're doing and for sharing your expertise with us today.

I will direct my first question to Ms. Kabloona. I believe there was some work done by your organization. There was some research into women's economic security and prosperity specific to the resource extraction industry.

Can elaborate on that study and the results or output from that?

[Kilikvak Kabloona]

I believe you're referring to a report that was initiated by Pauktuutit, the national Inuit women's organization. It's an introductory review of extractive industries in Inuit Nunangat, which is all across Canada's north, so from the Yukon to northern Labrador. It is the basis of a lot of the context that I provided earlier.

We're very specifically involved under article 23 of the Nunavut Agreement for employment opportunities for Inuit women. Also under the Nunavut Agreement, we have the land title to some portions of land in Nunavut. Under that, we have three operating mines. These are grandfathered land leases with the Government of Canada, so they were leases with mining companies established before Nunavut was created. We inherited the agreements under the federal government system. Those three mines are operated on Inuit-owned land, so we are also involved in supporting Inuit women and Inuit workers in that context.

Under those agreements, we have Inuit impact and benefit agreements with the mining companies and require training of Inuit. The mining companies have lower Inuit employment levels than the government. They have more robust training programs for their staff under the IIBAs—Inuit impact and benefit agreements—but they have all stagnated on Inuit employment and largely employ Inuit at the lower levels of income.

I hope that answers your question.

[Jenna Sudds, Liberal, Kanata—Carleton, ON]

Thank you very much.

Maybe just as a follow-on to that, from your perspective, what will it take or what is needed in these agreements in order to incentivize for a higher level of Inuit employment?