Status of Women Committee on Sept. 22nd, 2022

[Kilikvak Kabloona]

There are penalties under the agreements we have. I would note, though, that most of the land in Nunavut is still under Crown control. That process is separate.

On Inuit-owned land, there is a system whereby communities and regions need to agree to exploration prior to it occurring. On Crown land, though—which is the majority of the territory—that doesn't exist. It's a web-based system for staking land. Somebody could be staking land, definitely, from outside the territory and they only have an obligation to do exploration within two years in order to maintain that stake.

After exploration has occurred, it goes through an approval process when companies want to develop or do more exploration. At that point, communities are often told that it's too expensive and costs money to do the work so far, so there's some pressure for communities to approve the project even though they had no say in whether the project would be explored. Part of that reason is that under the Nunavut Agreement, there's a requirement to complete a Nunavut land use plan. Right now in Rankin Inlet, hearings are happening on the draft Nunavut land use plan.

Here we are in 2022, almost 30 years after the Nunavut Agreement was signed, and we still don't have established boundaries on where environmental protection will occur, where mining will occur and where culture activities will occur. There's an open system to take staking [Inaudible—Editor].

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Sonia Sidhu]

Thank you, Ms. Kabloona. Thank you, Jenna.

I will now pass it to Madam Larouche.

Andréanne, go ahead for two and a half minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Once again, I thank the witnesses today, who remind us of the importance of addressing this issue.

I am listening to everything that is being said, and I want to reiterate that if we want to achieve something concrete, we need to talk nation to nation, an expression I like. We are also present when it comes to co‑operation.

I hear that we must look for solutions. But there are calls for justice from the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls. We have recommendations. There are calls for action. I am a member of the All-Party Parliamentary Group to End Modern Slavery and Human Trafficking. Researchers and organizations that are looking at this issue also have proposals to make.

I hear there are sums of money, but I am told that these sums of money do not make it into the field. I find that very sad.

Ms. Kabloona, in closing, I want to join my colleagues in offering my condolences to your community. The young woman you referred to in your opening remarks is not just one more woman, she is one too many murdered. You also talked about money not going to the field. You mentioned the agreement made 30 years ago, recalling that nothing happened on the ground.

Do you think it's a lack of political will to talk nation to nation and deal with this issue to close the loop?

[Kilikvak Kabloona]

We have been developing a relationship with the Government of Canada through the Inuit-Crown partnership committee. We've seen considerable progress over the last few years. There are still challenges with the bureaucracy.

Mostly recently, in June, the Inuit-Crown partnership committee approved an Inuit Nunangat policy. This is a policy to guide bureaucracy through relationships with Inuit. We have some optimism that this will help, but I agree that it is disappointing that the funding has not flowed. We are ready to do the work and we have been doing quite a bit of work with our own money. We've put money into shelters and have been taking steps where we can.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Sonia Sidhu]

Thank you, Ms. Kabloona.

Thank you, Andréanne.

Now I'll pass it to Leah.

Leah, you have two and a half minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much, Chair.

I want to follow up with Dr. Neckoway.

You had written a brief to the committee supporting, specifically, call to justice 13.4. I'm really proud of our committee for heeding that call to justice in this study. You state specifically in that brief, “At a minimum, we support the call of Indigenous women and leaders for a public inquiry into the sexual violence and racism at hydroelectric projects in northern Manitoba.”

Who do you think needs to be part of that public inquiry and what do you want to see as a result of that public inquiry?

I know we have limited time; I apologize. You can submit a written brief after.

[Ramona Neckoway]

We would welcome that.

I think that's a great question. We do support something like that. Again, the federal and provincial governments need to be involved in that. Again, the federal government has a fiduciary responsibility, and they've been largely absent from conversations.

There was a cumulative study undertaken provincially, but it was, to put it bluntly, pretty inadequate. We need a study to look at the effects and impacts of this particular industry in Manitoba and what it means for folks on the ground. I don't think we have a good view of what that looks like quite yet.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I appreciate that.

I also want to note the correlation you're making between resource extraction and impacts on community. I would point out that Manitoba is a hydro-rich province, yet in northern Manitoba we have the second-worst housing conditions in the country.

Can you please comment, either one of you, on the fact that often people are pushing resource extraction where communities get all of the impacts and none of the benefits? I think Manitoba Hydro in many ways emulates that.

[Jarvis Brownlie]

Yes, that is exactly the situation.

Electric power is being extracted from northern Manitoba for the benefit of southerners in southern Manitoba, and some of the power is sold to other provinces and American states. The benefits go to Manitobans and largely to Manitoba Hydro itself and the provincial government, which gets a lot of money from Manitoba Hydro, but the benefits don't go to northern first nations.

In recent years, we've seen some partnership agreements between Manitoba Hydro and first nations, which make it look as if there's a broader consent and a partnership happening, but these deals are very poor deals for first nations. They still aren't getting a lot of benefits. They're not getting even the benefits they were promised. Still, the harms continue.

There was a treaty made in 1977, the Northern Flood Agreement. It's been nullified, first by just delaying and litigating everything, then eventually by passing new agreements.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Sonia Sidhu]

Thank you, Dr. Brownlie.

Thank you, Leah.

Now I'll pass it over to Shelby to start with her round for six minutes.

Go ahead, Shelby.

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Just before we begin, I was respecting the new amended schedule and the notice of the amended meeting. I'm more than comfortable going ahead, but....

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Sonia Sidhu]

Yes, at the start we said that we would go over a little bit.

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Perfect. All right. Then I'm certainly happy to continue.

Thank you to all of the witnesses who have shared their testimony and their comments, concerns, questions, queries and what have you.

I think as far as I see this, there are two main issues that this committee is concerned with in regard to this. First of all, there's the issue of ensuring that our indigenous communities benefit positively from resource development. That's clearly step one for all of us. We're hearing that in the testimony. Furthermore, we need to ensure that internally, the women of these communities benefit as well. Again, I can suggest that we're hearing that in complement from all the different testimony. But how can we ensure that second point? Is there something that should be happening at the community and company level in the contracts, for example? Corporate responsibility needs to come into play here. I think corporate responsibility and accountability are paramount here.

Is there something we can do to promote more action in the community? How can we get more women involved in making these decisions? How can we involve more indigenous communities in the resource development of these particular resources?

I'd like to pose that question to Lisa Smith.

[Lisa J. Smith]

Thank you for that question. It is something that's very important when we talk about this issue. It's intrinsically linked into this issue by virtue of the calls for justice of the MMIWG, in number 13.2, I believe. I don't have the calls in front of me.

So often we say, “Oh, funding, funding”, but funding equals capacity when the funding is I guess streamed correctly. As we heard today, that's probably not always the case, unfortunately. I think we need indigenous leadership. Indigenous women need the capacity to advise and ensure that their specialized knowledge by virtue of being indigenous women really is a part of the entire process.

Now, it's harder when the players are industry and the province, to be quite frank. How do we ensure that all players around the table are providing capacity for indigenous leadership to be a part of the entire process? Is it political will? I'm not sure. I think funding is part of that process, and I think upholding our inherent rights, and I guess getting everyone on board. Again, with regard to Bill C-15 and UNDRIP, I don't want to be naive about its reach, but I'm thinking that is part of how we get there.

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Okay. That's perfect. I appreciate that.

Perhaps I'll move on to a quick question for either Dr. Jarvis or Dr. Neckoway.

You mentioned in your testimony that “concrete steps” had been taken to reverse the damages that you identified regarding the hydro development in Manitoba. Could you possibly elaborate on what those concrete steps were?

Thank you.

[Jarvis Brownlie]

I believe what we said was that concrete steps could be taken. They haven't been.

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Thank you for that clarity. Do you have any suggestions or ideas on what some next steps could be?

[Jarvis Brownlie]

We need the communities to have a say and not just consultation, because consultation as currently practised is not listening. They just send people into the communities in suits. They may give people an opportunity to talk, but it doesn't change anything. They don't change their plans.

We need real a way [Inaudible—Editor] for communities—

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Okay. I don't mean to interrupt you, but maybe I'll get one quick thing for clarity.

If we can perhaps avoid having people from positions of authority, and getting indigenous communities and people involved from the community who are not necessarily from the “suits”, as you called it, or positions of authority, would that be an example of a concrete step?

[Jarvis Brownlie]

Yes.

When I said “suits”, I didn't mean to insult anyone. It's just the way the community members have talked to me, because they have an immediate reaction to that. It sends a certain message. As you say, it sends a message of authority.

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Thank you. There's no insult taken. It's all good.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Sonia Sidhu]

Thank you, Dr. Brownlie.

Thank you, Shelby.

Next we have Emmanuella for six minutes.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to first thank all of the witnesses who are here with us today to inform us and to help us come up with some solutions to some of the issues that are facing indigenous women and girls due to resource extraction.

Most of my questions at this point have been answered, but I'm going to go to a higher level.

Ms. Smith, you were speaking a little earlier about what potential solutions could look like and how to get more people involved in implementing sustainable and lasting change so that women and girls are less impacted in a negative way and benefit more from resource extraction.

The conversation you were having with my colleagues earlier was making me think also of what potential solutions could be and I'm curious to see that, because there are issues at several levels. Whether it's in government, in policing or in the communities themselves, or whether it's in the companies that are doing the extraction of resources, getting more women involved at all of these levels I think would be key and important, because in order to change, I think what's needed here is a cultural change at every single level.

Can you comment a bit further on that?

[Lisa J. Smith]

Yes. Thank you for that.

I completely agree with everything you've said.

I think that something I forgot to mention that's key to this is that the Truth and Reconciliation Commission focused on the truth, on getting the truth out there. Now we need to focus on reconciliation, and “reconciliation” as a word requires action, so what does that look like?

I think the entire committee—everyone, I think, from the questions being posed—is concerned about concrete action and outcomes, and I'm very glad to hear that. I think we need to focus on healing now, right? We need to heal as a country. Indigenous peoples need to heal.

Something that NWAC is doing, which I would love to inform everyone about, because we are hoping for it to be far-reaching in every province and territory in this country, is that we have what's called a “resiliency lodge”. The pilot project was done in Chelsea, Quebec, and it's a huge success. It's healing traumas from residential schools. It's connecting with the land, and that in itself gives women courage to be a part of the process because, as you can imagine, violence against indigenous women and colonialism sometimes prevent women from having the confidence to be involved and share their knowledge. We need to really focus on that.

We're about to open up another resiliency lodge in New Brunswick—Wabanaki—and that's going to have...we bought a farm. We're saving turtles. We're reconnecting with the land. It's going to look different in every province and territory, but our dream, our vision at NWAC, is to roll them out. We have a pilot project that worked in Chelsea. We want to roll these out across this nation, and that's a concrete action that I think the committee is looking for in terms of where we go from here. Well, we need to heal our people, and we need to heal this country.

Thank you.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

If you don't mind, maybe you could send us some of the information that came out of that. That would be great. Maybe you could bring it to the committee so that we have it and can use it in our recommendations later on.