Status of Women Committee on Oct. 17th, 2022

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I ask that because, in Manitoba, we recently got a first-of-its-kind peer support van. We don't even have safe consumption sites in Manitoba. Even a peer support van was difficult because of stigma. Because of the fact that people who are suffering from addictions are so stigmatized, there seems to be this idea that they don't even deserve support when they're using.

Would a federal response to this overdose crisis, rooted in mental health, often mental health and trauma, be helpful?

[Dr. Mary Bartram]

I think the federal government is working on several fronts around substance use stigma and around the overdose crisis, but we see that this crisis is still impacting the country in a very deep and profound way, so I think more is always helpful.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Would decriminalization—

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

We'll get back to you, Leah. We'll give you some more time.

We're now going to go to our next round, and it's going to be five minutes each.

I'd like to turn the floor over to Anna Roberts.

Welcome, Anna, to FEWO.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here.

Thank you, everyone.

My first question is for Ms. Jones, on eating disorders.

I recently met with some young children who were bullied at school because of their shape, size, whatever. I approached the teachers on education, on how we are educating young students because, let's face it, the younger they are, if they develop a certain skill or they develop a certain—and I shouldn't say this—nasty attitude, it will continue with them for the rest of their lives. How can we improve education at that level?

[Shaleen Jones]

That's a great question.

I think you've hit upon something really important here, which is that we have to look at young people in the context in which they lead their lives. While it's important to do health promotion in the schools, early intervention for eating disorders and work around body image, it's also important to recognize that they are surrounded by adults. We also bring our own prejudices around weight, shape and size and our own judgments around what is healthy.

I think really looking at systems and how we address weight stigma and healthism within systems that are surrounding our young people is essential.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you for that.

I'm new to this committee. I understand that the government has promised $4.5 billion to assist with mental health disorders.

We've just gone through the worst two and a half-plus years with COVID, when a lot of young children became depressed. A lot of them developed eating disorders because they were bored. They couldn't get out, and they couldn't see their friends. They couldn't move on. I'm trying to understand why we're so slow in acting to ensure that we have taken aggressive procedures or aggressive manners to help in that area. What do you think we need to do better?

[Shaleen Jones]

That's the million-dollar question. In the 2014 report on eating disorders of women and girls, one of the witnesses said that if eating disorders were an illness that affected men like prostate cancer, there would be an eating disorders clinic on every street corner. I think it's valuable for us to take a gender equity lens to this issue and know that it impacts predominantly women and girls. Although, of course, it has impacted men and boys as well, it's seen as an illness that impacts girls and women, and it is seen as a feminine behaviour that stems from looking at Instagram too much and just not loving our bodies enough.

We've reduced it to an individual problem that girls just need to grow out of, snap out of and eat a sandwich. We've heard all of this. These are such complicated, metabolically and biologically driven, complex illnesses. I think we have been delaying taking action because of the lack of a gender equity lens to approaching eating disorders and because they are very complex. There isn't a one-size-fits-all solution to this.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you for that.

For my last question for you....

We talk about young children. We talk about the stats and generally this eating disorder is among young children. I recently met with a seniors group. I wasn't surprised to hear that some of these seniors—I don't know if you would refer to it as an eating disorder—given the cost of inflation, have had to reduce, let's say, their healthy meals to make sure they have enough money at the end of the month to support themselves.

Is there a program or do we have any stats on older individuals? In a lot of the homes, for a lot of the women—let's be honest, women outlive men; no offence to the men, but we all know the stats that this is the case—their pension or whatever is reduced once the spouse has passed on.

Are there any programs or do we have any numbers to find out about that?

[Shaleen Jones]

Yes, absolutely we can follow up with numbers on that. We know that eating disorders generally tend to start in adolescence, but for a variety of reasons, including lack of access to treatment, people still have them in mid-life and late life.

This isn't an illness that appears in adolescence and then disappears when they hit a magic number. We have a lot of folks within Canada who are currently adults and seniors and are still struggling with an eating disorder. We're also seeing disproportionate numbers of folks who are food-insecure and facing eating disorders.

Again, they're really complicated issues, but often they're connected to tremendous distress and lack of food availability.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much, Shaleen.

We're now going to turn it over to Jenna Sudds, who is onscreen.

Jenna, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Jenna Sudds, Liberal, Kanata—Carleton, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Good afternoon, everyone. My sincere thanks to all of the witnesses who have joined us today for their testimony and also for the incredibly important work they do each and every day.

My first question is for Ms. Mechmechia.

I know that one project you have under way—I believe it's called “Brave Space”—is helping to support Muslim women in particular after recent Islamophobic incidents in our country. I'm wondering if you can speak to us a bit about the impacts of Islamophobia on mental health for young women in the community.

Second, I'm thinking about world events that we're seeing, such as the tragic death of Mahsa Amini and this outcry and championing of women's rights in other parts of the world. I'm wondering if you can speak to that as well.

Thank you.

[Abrar Mechmechia]

Thank you so much, Jenna, for your question.

When we speak about the impact of Islamophobia, on a daily basis you face discrimination and racism. That absolutely leads to you feeling.... First, you're afraid to walk on the street. The participants we had at the pilot reported not feeling safe going out alone at night, not feeling safe being on the bus by themselves or needing to inform, for example, their friend or spouse that they're at this location. Especially after the incident, I personally did not allow my mom to go for a walk by herself because she wears a niqab. I was not going to risk it.

Feeling afraid and scared absolutely leads to feeling depressed and having a high level of anxiety and probably PTSD because it's trauma that leads to.... You're witnessing the trauma.

Anyway, there's also feeling slighted because there's not much support and you're feeling that you're being targeted.

I can speak a lot about the impact on mental health that women go through, especially after witnessing things like what's happening to other women in Iran, for example. I was having conversations with an Iranian girl and some of the professionals on the team just a couple of days ago. I was just checking on how they are feeling. They feel devastated. They wonder what support.... Also, the people who live in Canada and have families here don't know whom to turn to for support, to talk about their experiences and to explore that devastating feeling that they're going through.

When we did the pilot, we did four sessions. Now we have expanded it to eight sessions and we have applied to Islamic Relief for more support. Women wanted to be trained in self-defence techniques and that was surprising. It's not just the mental aspect. They don't feel safe even in Canada.

I don't know if I have more time to talk, but thank you so much for your question. I hope I gave you some insights.

[Jenna Sudds, Liberal, Kanata—Carleton, ON]

Yes. Thank you very much. I'm glad to hear that Brave Space is continuing.

Mr. Rodrigue, we've heard a bit today about some of the tools that are being used, the electronic tools, if you will, for mental health resources. Can you speak to whether these are being well received among youth? I ask that because I think part of the problem, as we've heard, is children gravitating toward technology and spending a lot of time on social media. I then posit, as a mother as well, whether, when a child is struggling with mental health issues, receiving health resources via Zoom or other electronic means is welcomed and effective.

[Michel Rodrigue]

Yes, it is welcomed. It is an efficient way to provide service when and where it's needed. It is as effective as face-to-face counselling, for instance. It is really part of that tool kit that we need to roll out. We need to prepare and support service providers, because they are not magically trained to provide that support.

Yes, text-based, Internet-based and phone-based ways are all very effective. For some, it's actually easier to interact, because they don't need to go into an office. There isn't that daunting element.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Awesome. Thank you so much.

We're now going to pass it over to Andréanne.

Andréanne, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Dr. Afifi, you talked in your opening remarks about the importance and impact of family violence on mental health issues, as well as the importance of prevention in reducing violence that some women and some families may experience. As we know, it isn't just women who are affected, but children, too.

Quebec produced a report titled “Rebuilding Trust”, which contains over 100 recommendations to specifically target intimate partner violence and the forms of violence that necessarily have an impact on families.

I'm also thinking about the whole issue of investing in groups that take in women who are victims of violence.

I spoke earlier about the fact that there is sometimes an attempt to complicate things or that there may be duplication of services. During the pandemic, transfers were made to shelters for abused women. It is important to invest more in these community groups that are working on the ground, and quickly, because they need resources to take in these women. There is a link between these financial resources and the help that can be given to women who are victims of violence.

Dr. Afifi, did you hear my question?

[Dr. Tracie Afifi]

Yes. I heard more of a statement than a question. Are you asking if these funds are helpful in reducing violence?

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

What I mean is that there are, for instance, community groups on the ground working on projects to take in more women, but the federal government has tried to impose conditions on its transfers. However, the Government of Quebec already had an agreement with these groups and wanted the money to be transferred to them as quickly as possible.

Trying to impose conditions or standards sometimes creates duplication of service or slows down transfers. Increasing support for these groups that help women is crucial because it has a direct link to mental health.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

We had only two and a half minutes there, so we don't have time for that answer.

Andréanne, if you want to hold on to that, we can come back to that when it's your turn again.

I will pass the floor over to Leah Gazan for her two and a half minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much, Chair.

My question is for Sarah Kennell.

Going back to my last question, Manitoba is talking about the peer support, and that was an issue. In Manitoba, we've had more people die of overdose in the past year than I've ever seen. I think it's over 500, which is a lot for a city the size of Winnipeg.

Would decriminalization assist? I say this because my thinking is that people, if they feel they're going to get in trouble for getting help, for being open about issues.... Would decriminalization assist individuals to get help? I say that in regard to women, because in the B.C. study, the BC Coroners Service says that more females are dying from illicit drug use. It says that while men have historically accounted for nearly 80% of fatalities, more than 26% of those who died in April were female, continuing a trend that began earlier this year.

We know that the rate of deaths among women and young women is going up. Would decriminalization help?

[Sarah Kennell]

Thank you for your question, Ms. Gazan.

Yes, we know that research demonstrates that the impact of the criminalization of substance use not only leads to deterring people—particularly marginalized, vulnerable people, including women, trans women and non-binary folks—from seeking care, but it also delays access to care and further pushes them underground, where they have fears of arrest, fears of criminalization and fears of child apprehension.

The system that surrounds criminalization actually has a ripple effect that is worse. CMHA is advocating for a nationwide approach to decriminalization to respond to that.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Would you say that stigma around addiction and drug use is in fact costing lives in terms of a failure of elected officials to support decriminalization in spite of the public health research?

[Sarah Kennell]

We know that taking a health-based approach leads to positive health outcomes, reduced arrests and reduced criminalization, which ultimately benefits society as a whole.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

In fact, it's almost like a crime prevention strategy.