Evidence of meeting #34 for Status of Women in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was young.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio
Yes, and to my dog, Benson, hello. He's probably out there watching right now. He keeps me calm.
We're now going to pass it over to Sonia for five minutes.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Sonia Sidhu Liberal Brampton South, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you to all the witnesses for joining us and giving us valuable testimony.
My first question is for Ms. McMillan. You said we need more education. Also, you talked about PTSD. What is an effective way to prevent sexual violence? Can you elaborate on that?
4:45 p.m.
Executive Director, Kawartha Sexual Assault Centre
A big focus that we have at the centre is prevention education. Again, there are sort of two parts to our services. One is providing counselling services and case management to survivors. The other is prevention education. Really, we do things like bystander intervention and we talk about what consent actually means. We're really getting into the school systems and things like that to be able to provide that service.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Sonia Sidhu Liberal Brampton South, ON
Do you think the online violence or bullying is also a risk factor? How are you preventing that?
4:50 p.m.
Executive Director, Kawartha Sexual Assault Centre
Yes, it's certainly a risk factor. We see many clients who come to us because of sexual assault that was perpetrated on them through social media or through texting photos and things like that. It's certainly a huge concern, and as we as a community get more technology, it continues to be a concern.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Sonia Sidhu Liberal Brampton South, ON
Dr. Shanker, or any of the other witnesses, can you elaborate on that and offer us any insight or recommendations as to how we can prevent that and protect our young girls?
4:50 p.m.
Distinguished Research Professor Emeritus, Philosophy and Psychology, York University, The MEHRIT Centre
One of the questions we have to be asking is why these young or older males are doing it. One of the problems we see is, again, that there is a system very deep inside the brain. It's called a seeking system, and when it becomes aggressive, it's called predatory aggression, and it can be triggered by what Brittany was just saying. When that is triggered, it shuts down self-awareness. It shuts down thinking. What happens is that all of the things we've taught them, all of the lessons about the harm, go out the window. They don't process them in the moment.
What we have to do is figure out...and we actually know how to do this. Michelle was hinting at this at the start. They have to learn to recognize in themselves when they are shutting down and why they are shutting down so that we can bring their empathy back online, because empathy shuts down completely. They do not see their victim as a human being. They see them as prey. This is the scariest part of it.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Sonia Sidhu Liberal Brampton South, ON
Dr. Shanker, you talked about emotional stress and how that turns off dopamine, but how can we balance that dopamine? There's a lack of motivation in youth. How can we elevate that motivation? Does psychotherapy help?
4:50 p.m.
Distinguished Research Professor Emeritus, Philosophy and Psychology, York University, The MEHRIT Centre
Of course it does, but the problem is that, as data coming out of the U.S. tells us, at least 50% of adolescents are having these problems, and it's probably considerably more, so we need to be thinking in terms of a universal model. Our problem is that they are living at a time when they are turning to things like social media or video games, and what these do is give them a shot of dopamine, but they do nothing to turn off their stress. And so, they get more and more stressed, and then—guess what—now we have a serious issue like suicide on our hands.
There was somebody today who made this wonderful point. I think it was Jaime. These parents and providers, we have to educate them. What are the signs that your kid is overstressed? What are the things they're doing to deal with that stress? As a parent or a provider, you shouldn't add to their stress by thinking that all they need is to be pushed and that if we push them, then their motivation will come back online. It is not a case of pushing. It is a case of reducing the stress so that they can get to calm.
I don't know if that answers your question, because it's a really tough question.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Sonia Sidhu Liberal Brampton South, ON
Yes, it does. Thank you very much for all the work you're doing on the ground.
Thank you.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio
Fantastic.
We're now going to pass it back over to Andréanne for five minutes.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Mrs. McMillan, I was one of the MPs on the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage to question Hockey Canada representatives about the sexual assault allegations. They have since resigned, and that's fine; their lack of empathy and real commitment to culture change was striking in their opening remarks.
You yourself talked about hockey and these assaults. Now that Hockey Canada representatives have left, what is being done? Where do we start to demonstrate the importance of taking action, to bring about a real cultural shift in toxic masculinity and the lack of empathy around violence against women in all sports, not just in hockey?
4:55 p.m.
Executive Director, Kawartha Sexual Assault Centre
That's a great question. Thank you.
I think the biggest piece is prevention education at a really young age. Right now, for example, we at the centre are getting to minor hockey associations to start that training right at the age of six. We're also working with coaches and parents to talk about those issues around toxic masculinity and the dangers of it. We're doing a lot of work that way. Unfortunately, there aren't funds for that. We're just responding to the crisis, knowing that we can prevent a bunch of future sexual assaults from happening.
We do work closely with our OHL teams; I just want to highlight that. The Ontario Hockey League has taken many steps ahead of these allegations, so I think that's also important to note, but it is.... It's getting to the kids, the coaches and the parents at a really young age because we do put hockey players and other athletes on a pedestal. We need to make sure that they're not just great players but that they're also great off the ice.
4:55 p.m.
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
We really need to send a message of zero tolerance and transparency when these situations occur. Proper training allows us to recognize these situations and denounce them in order to send this message of zero tolerance and to make it clear that we don't want any more cases like these.
We know that there have been studies, especially academic ones, on how to create a culture change. Are there any that you're interested in? Would you like to turn to this research and these researchers who have looked at this issue of culture change?
4:55 p.m.
Executive Director, Kawartha Sexual Assault Centre
The prevention education team at our centre—and across most of the sexual assault centres—is always looking at current research and trying to implement those changes and be a part of some of those implementations. We're consistently looking for new ideas, for how we can make this better and for how we can effectively change a culture.
It's not just hockey. It's a society culture that we're trying to shift as well.
4:55 p.m.
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
Absolutely.
Ms. Couture, in closing your opening remarks, you also talked about the importance of educating people about this and working proactively with young men and women. Would you like to add anything to that?
4:55 p.m.
Executive Director, La Maison Hébergement RSSM
I sincerely believe that school faculty and officials should have training on mental health issues. I think there's a lack of education around this. Most of the time, mental health issues are lumped together, but I think everyone needs to learn more about it.
4:55 p.m.
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
You talk about education, but there are also gaps in areas of federal jurisdiction, such as a lack of mental health education in federal penitentiaries.
Staff in these penitentiaries need to be trained on how to intervene, because they often have to deal with people who have mental health issues.
4:55 p.m.
Executive Director, La Maison Hébergement RSSM
Services are indeed quite minimal in the prison system. There should be much more extensive and explicit training. I think it's necessary, because people—
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio
That's perfect. We're going to have to switch over to the next person.
I'm going to pass it over to Leah Gazan.
Leah, you have two and a half minutes. No, I'm sorry. You have five minutes. I'll give you five.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
I was going to say that I'm watching the clock here. Thank you so much, Chair.
My question is for Dr. Shanker.
I'm interested in your analysis. When I was in university, my first course in psychology was taught by a neuropsychologist, so I certainly appreciate your perspective.
Here's my question for you. In your testimony, you talked about helping young people—or women and girls—with stress by taking away stress factors, and you mentioned, for example, parents, but we know that all situations aren't the same.
For example, you can look at social determinants of health and look at it more from a social psychology perspective in terms of things like intersecting identities and the impacts of colonization on indigenous people. We've heard much today about the impacts of bullying on the 2SLGBTQIA+ community, and I would say that it goes beyond bullying to things like mass murders, which we've actually witnessed, and the kind of stress that just living in the world places on those communities. There are also discrimination and ableist behaviours faced by disability communities.
These are just a couple of very brief examples that impact many young people—many young women and girls and diverse-gender people. I'm wondering if your research looked into intersecting factors that impact brain health and functioning.
5 p.m.
Distinguished Research Professor Emeritus, Philosophy and Psychology, York University, The MEHRIT Centre
Leah, you had a good professor.
Yes, we do. We distinguish among three levels of the brain. We call them blue brain, red brain and grey brain. The red brain is the part below the surface, the part that has the limbic system—our emotions and things like that. All of those stresses that you're describing send these kids—or people of whatever age—into red brain. When they're in red brain, strong negative emotions are running the show.
We've heard today about these wonderful programs that are designed to get them back into blue brain, to calm down the red brain so they can begin to think. What we find—and this is really important—is that when someone is in red brain, they cannot choose. We can give them all the information that we—
5 p.m.
NDP
Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Just going in there, we hear about things like blood memory, for example. We can talk about red brain. This is not a moment of behaviour. For example, if a parent is calm.... There are intergenerational layers of trauma. If we look at, for example, war veterans or women who have experienced violence, there are all sorts of triggers that set off stress factors that can't just be controlled. It goes beyond that. It's in the lived memory of our brain. I would say spirit, but it's our brain.
When you're talking about mitigating that, is part of the response then addressing those historical impacts or colonial impacts to assist people who go into crisis?
5 p.m.
Distinguished Research Professor Emeritus, Philosophy and Psychology, York University, The MEHRIT Centre
Absolutely. We do an awful lot of work in the far north. The basic thing we've learned is that we cannot have this kind of individualistic focus. We can't look at the mind as this solitary thing. We're seeing entire communities that are in red brain. In fact, if we look south of the border, we're seeing an entire country that is in red brain.
What we have to do is figure out how we can precipitate this healing process. It cannot happen unless we restore calmness—unless we restore homeostasis—so that we can now begin to jointly problem-solve and address it.
5 p.m.
NDP
Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Sure. Thank you so much. I would say that when we're talking about restoring calmness, that also includes addressing systemic racism.