Status of Women Committee on Oct. 27th, 2022

[Karen McNeil]

At Achēv, we've seen first-hand the growing needs of international students looking for access to free supports. Based on leads generated from our social media channels, specifically in two of our Brampton locations, we know that about 42% of inquiries were from international students looking for help. Unfortunately, many of them are ineligible for a lot of the federally funded programs, as you are probably aware.

We are encouraged by recent attention being given to these issues by vice-chair and Brampton South MP Sonia Sidhu. We applaud Minister Sean Fraser for temporarily lifting the rule regarding 20 hours of work per week for international students, and we recommend that this change be made permanent.

We would also like to see the federal government expand federal programs so that international students would be eligible for supports, including supports for mental health for women and girls.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you. I'm pleased to say that Sonia Sidhu is on our committee and is here today, so I appreciate my colleague's action on that. I think we could potentially take that as a recommendation from this study.

My next question is for Ms. Boucher. I just want to pick up on something you said the U.K. Parliament is looking at, which is the “de-prescribing”, the withdrawal, because we heard in previous testimony that often when young girls present at emergency, they're given medication and they're sent home, and then there's no follow-up. Some of this can be very difficult to withdraw from.

You said there were lessons to be learned there for Canada. Could you maybe, in a very short time, elaborate on what those lessons might be?

[Anne-Marie Boucher]

Yes, of course.

The mandate of the committee that was struck in the United Kingdom was to study, first, dependence on prescription drugs, including psychotropics, and, second, how to support persons in withdrawal.

What we're seeing on the ground, particularly in the community sector, as you said, is that many young women and older people are prescribed antidepressants and anxiolytics without there being any monitoring of that medication or instructions as to when to stop taking it. Consequently, those drugs may be prescribed for years without the patient being advised on dosage reduction or withdrawal methods.

People are also very rarely informed, before they take certain drugs, about how difficult it is to withdraw from them. We've observed that inadequate information is provided when drugs are prescribed. Even health professionals aren't always well equipped to ensure that withdrawal is done properly. That has been studied in the United Kingdom, and we think we should examine that particular issue in Canada too.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

That's perfect. Thank you so much, Anne-Marie.

We're now going to turn it over for the next six minutes to Andréanne Larouche.

Andréanne, you have the floor.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

My sincere thanks to the witnesses for being here and for testifying today. I've noticed a recurring theme here on the importance of working upstream on the social determinants of life, particularly on what causes a woman to experience mental health problems. This is very interesting.

Ms. Boucher, you just mentioned psychotropics, but you also raised the issue of social determinants. You also described the Quebec model of autonomous community organizations.

The situation is urgent. We know that the health system and community organizations don't lack for projects or initiatives regarding access to mental health services. Yours is a good example of that.

However, one of the major problems is the glaring lack of funding. Organizations want stable and recurring funding from the government. To meet that demand, the Quebec government must necessarily increase the budget it has set aside for the health system. Your organization's funding depends on that as well.

So don't you think the federal government should make its contribution and adequately fund the provinces and territories by transferring the missing amounts to them unconditionally?

[Anne-Marie Boucher]

Health transfers are obviously critical in supporting the health systems of the various provinces. We can see that there's an urgent need to increase funding, particularly for mental health, which is the poor cousin in the budget of Quebec's Ministry of Health. In addition, we definitely would like an increase in federal transfer payments, but those payments must also be made promptly and unconditionally.

I previously worked in the homelessness sector, and I very clearly remember long negotiations over Canada-Quebec agreements such as the Homelessness Partnering Strategy. The funding was slow in coming on the ground, but we needed it urgently.

We hope that the health transfer payments will be made in a manner consistent with provincial jurisdictions and that we can quickly have access to funding that enables us to increase the community sector's efforts on the ground.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

You cited the example of delayed assistance for combating homelessness, but I can tell you that assistance, which was earmarked for women victims of violence, was also very slow in coming during the pandemic.

So we can see that the federal government sometimes creates programs that fund organizations and projects such as yours but that overlap with those of the provinces. I'd also like to go back to that issue because I know you're requesting stable, recurring and unconditional funding. You said that.

I know that federal-provincial program overlap requires community organizations such as yours to spend a great deal of time and energy completing application forms. Project funding and the obligation to be accountable result in a lot of red tape and criticism.

Would you please tell us a little more about that issue and the fact that project funding doesn't help you support young people over the long term?

[Anne-Marie Boucher]

Project funding can definitely be useful at times in developing new ways of doing things. However, what community organizations in Quebec and elsewhere want is mission funding. Then they could promote and support mobilization using that resource.

Consequently, we need to support the mobilization of young people so they can develop their own projects, test initiatives and roll them out. Project funding is often very limited and involves milestones that are imposed on us from above, which very often runs counter to the practices of the community sectors. Accountability, which is a major responsibility, takes up time that we should instead be devoting to developing our mission and animating association and democratic life

Of course, what we hope for is public, recurring mission funding that truly enables groups to maintain their independence and agility in developing projects based on demand on the ground.

There's considerable demand for youth projects right now. We think mission funding could help to develop them. Certain initiatives are also headed in that direction, even where there's no specific project.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

You're already receiving mission funding from the Quebec government. As for funding from the federal government, which imposes its standards on you, you'll obviously have a contact that you can speak with.

[Anne-Marie Boucher]

Yes, something like that.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

What you need is operating funding. That's what we're hearing.

For all the reasons you cite, your community groups are also familiar with the situations on the ground and are really more directly plugged in to people's needs in each of the regions.

[Anne-Marie Boucher]

Yes, that is really what we are negotiating, including when there is federal funding that occasionally comes to us.

We want the communities to be able to decide for themselves where the money will go. When we receive project funding, like under the Homelessness Partnering Strategy, we want the communities to be able to define the priorities and guidelines. It is obviously even better when we are able to receive mission funding that doesn't come with conditions or require specific practices, so it allows us to develop what the communities need in the here and now.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

You have 10 seconds.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

I will probably have an opportunity to come back to the subject and get your comments on violence against women, but we will have to wait for the second round, because my six minutes of speaking time are up.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you.

I'm going to pass the floor over to Leah Gazan.

Leah, you have six minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much, Chair.

My first questions are for the Northern Ontario School of Medicine University, Diane Whitney or Peter Ajueze.

In your presentation, you spoke about the lack of access to care, but also the impacts of colonization on mental health, particularly for indigenous women, girls, and two-spirit people. We had a historic day today in the House of Commons, which unanimously passed a motion recognizing what happened in residential schools as a genocide.

From your testimony, you see those realities on the ground with the lack of resources. What changes do you think urgently need to be made to address the current crisis?

[Dr. Diane Whitney]

The question is, what part of the current crisis? There are so many.

In listening to people.... Why do medications get prescribed, particularly to young people, who probably don't need the medication? It's because there isn't any counselling. That doesn't require me as a psychiatrist to do that.

I've been struck, since I've been in the north.... I've been in the north for 12 years. When I first arrived, I was getting referrals for grief. I was thinking, “That's not a psychiatric issue. It's a family and social issue.” The tremendous lack of counselling is very significant.

As Dr. Jetly says, we can't keep doing the same thing we've been doing, which is doing one-on-one counselling weekly. The lineup just grows. How do we offer things differently?

I do mindfulness in my clinical practice. I've been running a group for 10 years. When COVID hit, I reluctantly switched to Zoom. I had more people in the group. They stayed longer in the group, and I was able to deliver it virtually. It was an amazing experience.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

In one of the programs they had many years ago at the Opaskwayak Cree Nation in northern Manitoba, they would take families who were impacted by intergenerational trauma and having involvement in the child welfare system, and put them on an island as a family, with a psychologist and an elder. They would teach families how to be together as families and to understand the historical trauma that resulted in the current struggles the family was having. It was rooted in culture, outside of western practices, in terms of mental health care.

Are you familiar with any programs like that? Do you think that those kinds of programs are critical, particularly when working with isolated and indigenous communities?

[Dr. Diane Whitney]

I'm not aware of any program like that in northwest Ontario, but I think it would be quite healing for the family as a whole in relation to the trauma experience.

Peter, in your northern part of the province, in Sudbury or elsewhere, does any program like that exist for families?

[Dr. Peter Ajueze]

There are no programs specifically about general psychology or intergenerational trauma, but there are for substance use.

I appreciate that question. I am currently in Sault Ste. Marie attending a clinic for an indigenous group. When you ask whether we think using a culturally based approach would be helpful, the answers is, absolutely.

Since I studied in this clinic with this group, I have learned a lot about some of the indigenous approaches, particularly toward trauma. We have been incorporating it specifically in the clinic where I work. I am also aware of these...they call it land-based treatment, where people struggling with addiction and substance use would go. It's specifically for the indigenous population.

I had a patient who attended and found it very helpful. I think they usually stay for a month to three months. I've heard good things. It's something that I think physicians, including me, need to learn even more about, to see how we can incorporate that into our own practices.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you very much.

Going back to addiction, we know that people who are using substances are often using them to self-medicate more complex mental health and trauma issues. Do you think that the lack of available support exacerbates substance use in remote communities?

[Dr. Diane Whitney]

Yes, it does, significantly. Trying to find, particularly in the north, addiction treatment and treatment facilities that are able to manage patients with “complexities”—to use that term—is next to impossible.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

We—

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Actually, your time is up.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Sorry, I was trying to get an extra two minutes.