Status of Women Committee on Dec. 1st, 2022

[Ciara McCormack]

In terms of what a national judicial inquiry would accomplish, what I mentioned before was the fact that I can see there's such a lack of acknowledgement of what is right and what is wrong. I think what my blog served to do, at least, was...everybody in Vancouver who was in elite-level soccer knew some version of misconduct that had happened. When you have that kind of transparency, you have accountability. You can't hold people accountable and change things if you don't know the full scope.

I'm telling you that we reported over 30 times. That's a fact.

We were just sitting in the lobby, discussing different stories that we've heard, and it's shocking. Part of the harm that we experienced was that we knew.... You know that what's out there is so shocking, horrible and awful, yet the reaction you're getting back does not match. It's classic gaslighting, and it's so harmful.

That's what's important with this. We have to understand what the harm is in order to start to remedy it, and we have to set clearly what's right and what's wrong. I think sometimes things are so convoluted in the current system with power and conflicts of interest and whatever. To give people the benefit of the doubt, maybe they don't even see how shocking it is, but I can tell you from living within it that it's horrendous.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Well said. I think the base for normal when you're living in it is that you don't know any different. That's often shocking for a lot of people.

This is my last question. Has there ever been a call before for a national judicial inquiry? If yes, why do you think there hasn't been one to date?

[Ciara McCormack]

I think to this point, we've been so silenced and siloed as athletes. Again, we spoke about it before we came here. Finally, even to just listen and connect with athletes in different sports.... For so long, I felt like I was a troublemaker and I was a problem person for speaking up. I'm siloed, while these organizations and the people who are causing this harm can hide behind the veil of an organization. I'm standing in front of everybody with this big allegation.

We've had no power as athletes. You get broken by the system and then you want nothing to do with sports or your experience or whatever. I think, to this point, that's what's gone on. We haven't been collectively together to know each other's experiences, to know we're not crazy and that our experience is happening in different versions in other sports.

I also don't think that our voices have been amplified to the level that they're being amplified now. This massive system has suppressed all of us, and I feel like we're all starting to rise above.

I hope that people now understand the full scope of what we've been through. I hope that people now feel like this cannot continue, that we have to change this and we have to hear every story and understand fully the conflicts of interest that have allowed this kind of harm to happen.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Has there been one asked for that you know of?

[Ciara McCormack]

There was a call for it last week, wasn't there?

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

There was call for action last week, yes.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

It was just last week, though.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

We'll pass it over to Anita Vandenbeld.

You have five minutes.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you.

I really want to thank both of you for being here. It's not easy to give this kind of testimony.

What strikes me is that we're hearing this now across different sports, so this is clearly systemic. What I'm really touched by and horrified by, actually, is the fact that you were victimized not just by what happened to you, but by the fact that when you tried to stop it from happening to other people and other children, you weren't heard. The idea that the very people who were meant to protect you were weaponizing your information and were gaslighting and shaming you is something that we need to make right. The fact that nobody listened....

I want you to know we're listening, so thank you for being here.

[Ciara McCormack]

That means a lot, and it's very healing, honestly.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Ms. McCormack, you talked about things you've cobbled together, informal peer networks, trying to get therapy where you can, and you mentioned not being able to access legal supports and different things, and being siloed and alone.

There are organizations and places where, if somebody comes forward with a testimony of something that happened to them, they're immediately given an advocate who can walk them through what they need. We know that that changes over time. If it's therapy, if it's peer support, if it's legal support or if it's just advice about what the process is, they're an advocate for that child or for that person.

What would that have looked like? Let's look at it right now, for a young girl who is in soccer or in boxing. If the system worked properly, what would it look like when that young girl comes forward? What would a good system look like?

[Ciara McCormack]

I think the first thing is education. There were so many situations as an athlete where I just thought it was a consequence of being an outspoken person; I got benched or I had bad things happen to me. I think I learned two years ago that it's a form of abuse called “neglect”.

That's my big question: Why are we not educating children and parents as to what abuse looks like? You're never going to eradicate predators. They're always going to be there, but there are ways you can mitigate the damage they're going to do. I think that's the first thing. You need to empower children to know, and then you need to have a safe place to report.

For 11 years, I literally described every possible...to the point of postering up the sports complex where he was. Again, there was just nothing. There has to be some kind of entity that is removed from sport, because I think the biggest thing to recognize is that institutions are liable for abuse, so they don't want to empower the victim. That is the fundamental issue in the system.

Again, I think that in order to mitigate, you have to have an entity outside of anything that has to do with liability from the institution, an entity that provides legal support and therapy and peers who have been through it and who can help walk them through the steps they need. Educate them as to “this was abuse that happened to you” and “this was a criminal situation that happened to you”.

Again, I honestly and truly believe that if there was that kind of balance in the system, a lot of these power-hungry coaches and predators and whatever probably wouldn't do half of what they do, and I think athletes wouldn't be harmed for 11 years. My soccer career in Vancouver ended in 2008. It's 2022. I'm still talking about this. It should have been done in 2008. He should have been investigated. He should have gone to prison, yet so many of us over the last 14 years still have this situation running our lives.

I honestly and truly believe that if those sorts of things.... Again, it has to be outside the system. We have to treat it as a human rights thing, as opposed to a sport thing, because it's gotten so convoluted and the harm is so deep.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

He should have been. It is a human rights issue and these are children.

[Ciara McCormack]

Yes, 100%.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Children cannot know these things. This is something that we need to do to protect the children.

Thank you.

I also wanted to give Ms. Da Silva Rondeau a chance to answer on what a good system would look like.

[Myriam Da Silva Rondeau]

I completely agree with Ciara on the outside system that needs to be in place. As you said, they are children. They don't know. Even as adults, we don't know. It's a complicated system when we get into sports. Make no mistake: 30 complaints, that's not a lot. I did more than 10 in two years. I was in that system for 12 years. Multiply that by 12. I'm one person. Imagine all of those athletes who have done the same. Thirty may look like a lot but it's kind of the norm, and nothing is done year after year. As Ciara said, she is still going through it. It has been two years. I'm still going through it. I pay for my own therapy. I pay for my own medication. There's no support for that. It's thousands of dollars.

I am a teacher. I am passionate about kids and helping them and giving them hope. It's getting hard to give them hope when I see no change happening. Right now, I don't know what to say to a kid who is abused, and I'm a teacher. I feel guilty for that. I don't know what to say to kids who have been abused because I have been abused and I didn't have any resources that were efficient. What am I supposed to say to a kid who comes to me and tells me all those things? Because I know the system is not working, am I supposed to say to him the same thing that happened to me...go complain to that system? I know it won't work. I can just stay there and look at this failing over and over again. This is part of me. It's hard.

I don't know what to do. I want to do more. I want to be involved, but for your question of what needs to be a perfect system for a kid who is going through abuse, for now the answer is that I don't know.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Your being here is changing things. Thank you for being here.

[Myriam Da Silva Rondeau]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you very much.

We're now going to pass it over to Andréanne.

Andréanne, you have the floor.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Da Silva Rondeau and Ms. McCormack, as a new mother of a young daughter, I want to thank you for being here and for testifying about your situation; this will shake things up.

Sport Canada is reviewing the Canadian policy on sport, which is to be renewed in February. Were you consulted on it? Do you know any athletes who were consulted regarding that policy?

[Ciara McCormack]

I personally don't.

I also want to put out there that I hate the word “policy”. I think our case shows that you can have a million policies out there, but if you don't have people with moral fortitude to follow through with the policies, or have systems in place to force those policies, I personally think they are a waste of time. Again, they're a nice decoration on a website, but in reality, for athletes at ground zero, they do nothing.

Again, I think Sport Canada is in the system and part of the problem. I don't necessarily think they even answer to doing the policies. Perhaps Myriam knows.

To answer your question, no, I had nothing to do with Sport Canada and wasn't asked for anything.

[Myriam Da Silva Rondeau]

The same is true for me.

That policy is nothing but nice words that mean nothing concrete.

Besides, there are many policies, and it's hard to understand them. It's complicated for an athlete to understand what they mean. So it's not easy for young athletes or adults to understand all those policies. When we file a complaint, we kind of get lost in the complexity of the system.

We haven't really been consulted.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

All right.

Canada is preparing to host the World Cup. We've discussed human rights.

Ms. McCormack, you mentioned incidents of mistreatment, but I'd like to go back to a question that was put to you. Were you surprised to see that Victor Montagliani and Peter Montopoli still have their jobs and can represent Canada Soccer in Canada and abroad?

[Ciara McCormack]

No. In terms of how broken the system is, it seems as if he's a perfect representation to show where we're at, currently. Unfortunately, he's a perfect figurehead for how broken Canada Soccer is and how athletes have been treated within the organization.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much.

We're now going to pass it over, for our last round, to Leah Gazan.

Leah, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.