Yes, I'm with them on that.
Evidence of meeting #44 for Status of Women in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was athletes.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #44 for Status of Women in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was athletes.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Public Speaker and Consultant, As an Individual
Yes, I'm with them on that.
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
There's talk of independent inquiries, but sometimes there's also the issue of the independence of authorities and organizations. I'd like to hear what you have to say on the subject.
Are you concerned that the SDRCC and the Office of the Sport Integrity Commissioner don't ensure that the professionals assigned to inquiries recuse themselves where there's an appearance of a conflict of interest in which, for example, they represent the interests of a national sport body at the centre of the complaint?
Are you concerned about the appearance of a conflict of interest?
Public Speaker and Consultant, As an Individual
You definitely want to be as independent as possible in cases as sensitive as these. Is it troubling? Yes, in a way, because they're all unique and sensitive situations.
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
In responding to a question from one of my colleagues, you said that Quebec and the provinces also had a role to play. You briefly mentioned Sport'Aide. I'd like to make a brief comment on that organization, which is a Quebec initiative. We've been working together with established organizations, particularly in Quebec. Throughout this investigation that we're conducting, for example, we're working with Sport'Aide, whose spokesperson you now are.
Public Speaker and Consultant, As an Individual
Would you please repeat your question?
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
Earlier you said that the provinces and Quebec had a role to play. Cooperation also has to be established in an investigation that's conducted to review what's happening in sport. The federal government is responsible for certain things that it can do, but you also have to take into account what's already being done in the provinces and in Quebec.
Among other things, you are the spokesperson for Sport'Aide, an organization that's under the Quebec government's authority.
Public Speaker and Consultant, As an Individual
Some very good initiatives are under way in all provinces, and we have some very good examples in Quebec.
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
Very well. Thank you.
Ms. Fraser and Ms. Glover, I'd like to hear your comments on the independent inquiry.
We can come back to my question during my next turn if you don't have enough time to answer it now.
How you perceive this independent inquiry?
Author and Educational Consultant, As an Individual
May I answer in English?
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
Yes, you can start answering the question, and we can come back to it during my next turn, if necessary.
Author and Educational Consultant, As an Individual
I have lived experience in British Columbia and I research all other areas. In British Columbia in particular, I find that there's talk about the old boys' club. I'm staggered by the corruption.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio
We'll get back to you, Wendy, if that's okay.
I'm going to pass it now to Leah Gazan. Leah, you have six minutes.
NDP
Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Thank you. I just want to thank everybody for coming here today and sharing your testimony.
We've heard horrific testimony, but I think, as I said before, we've known about this for a long time. It's been out in public. People just refuse to act. I don't think this is anything new. I'm glad we're doing this study. I want to acknowledge that there have been documentaries for years on this. People have just turned a blind eye and allowed abuse to happen.
I'm really taken by your testimony. You said something, Madame Fraser, about how we teach kids to respect adults, to listen to adults without question, particularly in schools—adults in positions of authority. I agree with you. I think that makes children vulnerable, because they're not even allowed to question how they are feeling in a situation. Can you expand on how that kind of teaching about listening to your elders—all of it—can be dangerous, particularly without education?
I also want to follow that up with you, Madame Glover.
Author and Educational Consultant, As an Individual
I think the perfect word is “dangerous”.
Because we teach children to obey blindly, you get this situation as we saw with Geneviève, in which she was being physically and sexually brutalized and she didn't even know. It was the same thing for me. When I was 13 years old, I had never heard the word “grooming”. I had never heard the words “child luring”. I had no idea that middle-aged men would want to have sex with teenaged girls or that they would do it very slowly, that they would start with you at 13 and they would slowly pull you in and alienate you from friends, talk to you about boyfriends and act like they were so caring that you would believe in them more and more. They create a loyalty bind, and once they've created the loyalty bind, you find it very hard to report on them. It's like reporting on a family member, plus you oftentimes are dependent on them.
Children need to be taught from a very early age. I'm an educator, and I had to educate myself. I looked at the science. I looked at the psychiatry and the psychology and the brain scans because nobody else was doing it. What I found was nothing short of shocking. I believe that all children.... We have 20 years of research into how the human brain works. We need to start teaching our kids from five years old all the way through the school system so that they become experts in the ways in which abusers manipulate their vulnerable brains.
NDP
Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Adding on to that, I want to ask a question of you.
You spoke about the importance of education. I'm a teacher, actually, as well. I was a teacher, and there was this constant debate about what's appropriate to talk about in schools, things like healthy touching or unhealthy touching. I was an early childhood educator, and we actually used picture books to teach the kids about healthy touching and unhealthy touching by adults. There are things that we can put in place so that kids know what their rights are at a very young age. Why do you as an educator think that's not happening?
Secondary School Teacher and Athlete Development Consultant, As an Individual
That would be because each province decides how they're going to deliver the education system, so some provinces have courses or requirements that other provinces do not.
As Jennifer mentioned earlier, it's health and mental health. It's greater than what we're talking about, and sports is just one way. There are plenty of children who don't play sports, so how are they getting this education?
When we teach kids as adolescents, we try to teach them how to appropriately have conversations with adults and how to challenge adults when they feel the need to, but I don't think it can be forced onto the children and parents to advocate for themselves. It has to be systemic. We're asking some people to do something that they're not comfortable with and that they feel apprehensive about for all the reasons that the other witnesses have mentioned.
As all the witnesses have echoed, this has to come from the top down. There has to be funding. There have to be programs in place.
NDP
Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
That brings me to my next question.
You can teach about healthy touching. I think that's all very important and I don't want to minimize kids' understanding what their rights are, and it's critical, but it seems to me, from the testimony we've heard, that even with all of that knowledge, when people come forward, they're met with no response.
Madame Jeanson, how do you think the sport system itself contributed to keeping you silent, even if you knew all of this stuff? We just finished a study on gender-based violence. Clearly you were in a cycle of tremendous abuse.
Public Speaker and Consultant, As an Individual
When I came forward with my story and little by little I started talking with friends who knew me back then and officials and people involved in cycling, they all told me they knew something was wrong. They could see it. I was not the same person I was before. They knew something was wrong, but I was winning and they were afraid that if they said something or helped me to get away from him, I wouldn't win anymore. They didn't want to be responsible for my not winning. In my opinion, on my story, I think there were some people who were highly placed who knew that, but I was winning and I was bringing funding to the program, so they didn't want to say anything, or they knew but they looked away so I could keep winning.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio
Thank you very much.
We're now going to go on to our second round. Due to time constraints, I'm reducing it to four minutes, four minutes, one minute and one minute.
We'll start. Online, we have Dominique Vien for four minutes.
Conservative
Dominique Vien Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Thank you for being here, ladies. Your testimony is very relevant to our study.
Ms. Jeanson, I'm going to piggyback on Ms. Gazan's idea, since it's exactly what I wanted to discuss. However, please let me know if you aren't comfortable and I'll address another topic.
What you're ultimately saying is that the people around you, both your colleagues in sport and staff members, particularly coaches, and perhaps even your family, have all remained silent or haven't answered any questions in order to spare you any further harm. That's what I understand from your testimony. This isn't the first time I've heard you speak about what you've experienced, since you've also discussed it on the major networks. You were completely abandoned and isolated. It's appalling to hear this today.
Public Speaker and Consultant, As an Individual
What I've experienced must not happen again; that's for sure. If I become the example of what you shouldn't do, I think that's just as good as being an example of what to do.
Yes, I was abandoned, and it's true that many people around me didn't want me to cause any more harm. Your words were well chosen. However, those people also have no idea of what they can do. They aren't equipped to take action. Actually, even the federation officials didn't know what to do.
Whether it's an anonymous system or something else, it would be extremely important to have a structure so that athletes who are victims of violence and people who have witnessed that violence can report it. That way, athletes wouldn't be left to their own devices. Athletes definitely must have support.
Conservative
Dominique Vien Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
We should have watchdogs, people who keep an eye out and watch how things develop.
Ms. Jeanson, I see my time is passing quickly, and that's very frustrating.
We're realizing that all is not well in the world of sport. Last week I asked some witnesses if this was just the tip of the iceberg.
What do you think, Ms. Jeanson? You've been in sport for such a long time and have been assaulted since you were a teenager. Do you think the situation is bad in all sports? Is it rotten to the core? Has anyone else confided in you and told you these things happen in their sport too? Are we facing a situation far more widespread than we might believe?
Public Speaker and Consultant, As an Individual
I think so. Athletes in other sports, even at the international level, have definitely come to me and discussed their experiences.
I don't think more assaults are being committed now than previously, 20 years ago, but we talk about it more today. The more we talk about it, the more we increase people's awareness, and the more progress we can make.
Is the problem bigger than we think? I'd say that's probably the case.
Conservative
Dominique Vien Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
Can you tell me, in a few key words, what a good coach is?
Public Speaker and Consultant, As an Individual
A good coach is someone who can bring out the best in an athlete and make sure that athlete grows as a human being. Gold medals and podium finishes aren't the only things that count; what also counts is being an athlete who develops into an excellent human being.