Status of Women Committee on Feb. 13th, 2023

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Ms. St-Onge.

I'll now go to the second bullet, which was “to build capacity in the Canadian sport system.”

If I'm hearing you correctly, this maybe needs to be redefined as well. It's about having physical activity wide rather than deep.

Could you give me your thoughts on “building capacity”? What does that mean to you?

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

This means that sport must be accessible to as many people as possible, that we must democratize sport. We need to make sure that communities that have less access to sports get the investment and support that they need to promote access to physical activity in general, not just organized sport. We need to ensure, in fact, that everyone can benefit from physical activity.

We need to do more. In the penultimate budget, we launched the Community Sport for All initiative. We funded national organizations to improve programming for groups that are generally underserved by the sport system. That's $80 million over two years. It is through initiatives like this that we can increase access to sports.

We talk about abuse and mistreatment, but we also need to talk about discrimination and bullying in sport. We need to open up sport, make it safe and inclusive for all.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

Will expanding grants and expanding organizations be accompanied with extra protections and with what I was speaking about earlier—filtering out abusers and making sure abusers don't get into the system as it expands?

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

The Red Deer Declaration, which was signed by all provinces and the federal government, provides mechanisms for protection. It is a commitment to athlete safety.

The Universal Code of Conduct to Prevent and Respond to Maltreatment in Sport, I repeat, should be applied in all sport settings, whether community, local, school or other, to ensure that we all have a clear and consistent understanding of what abuse and mistreatment is, and what everyone should do to prevent it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much.

We're now going to start the five-minute rounds—five minutes, five minutes, two and a half, and two and a half.

We'll start off with Dominique Vien for five minutes.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Good morning to you all.

Good morning, Madam Minister. I welcome you to this meeting.

In this committee we work very hard, and we really hear horror stories.

All members of the committee have been touched by several witness testimonies. We are trying to find intelligent, reasonable solutions that will work. You raised a number of points earlier that left me a bit wanting, I confess.

I would like to start with the creation of a registry of coaches who do not have the profile to be coaches, or who are sanctioned and who, as you yourself pointed out, move from one province to another with a fair amount of impunity. You said that this registry was one of the solutions you would like to see put in place. Yet you seem to be saying that there is a discomfort with the idea of creating a registry like this, because of privacy concerns.

For me, I find that the protection of the personal data of a coach who should not be coaching anyone and who has done wrong pales in comparison to the interest of young people who are subjected to abuse and mistreatment.

What bothers you so much about this registry?

What could be put in place so that we are able to move forward and create this registry, which would be a tool to inform people on the boards of clubs and to ensure that they can retain reliable people?

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

We are already working towards this, with the Office of the Sport Integrity Commissioner, among others.

The current commissioner would also like to see such a mechanism in place, to have one in each province, or for the provinces and territories to sign an agreement with the commissioner's office to do so.

This will improve the situation and provide clear sanctions for coaches. This mechanism does not currently exist in many areas of the sport system.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

But in order to impose sanctions on them, you need to have identified them.

Wouldn't you agree?

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Yes, we are working on this issue. The insights that the committee can give us on this will be welcome. There are legal frameworks to be respected.

On the other hand, we are looking at several ways to proceed. For example, there could be a registry of certified and recommended coaches from which coaches who have been sanctioned would be removed, making it easier to choose when hiring coaches. This remains to be determined.

The goal is to ensure that abusers are not part of the Canadian sport system. That's the goal and that's the discussion I'm going to have with the provinces and territories as well.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

We will return to the discussions you are going to have with your provincial counterparts.

You've referred to the Office of the Sport Integrity Commissioner. There are a number of witnesses—my colleagues can correct me if I am wrong—who have expressed reservations, definite doubts about the trust they have in this office. In particular, there are people who belong to national associations or who sit on their boards of directors. There is a kind of mix of genres, and the athletes' trust in the office is somewhat diluted.

What do you have to say about that?

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Again, if the committee has recommendations for us to improve confidence in the Office of the Sports Integrity Commissioner, and if anything needs to be reviewed, we're open to that.

However, I'd like to remind you about independence. Even though all courts are funded by governments, the justice system is independent. The same is true of federal agencies, which are financially supported by the federal government. Barriers exist, but the office is new, it was created six months ago. It will evolve over time.

I'm prepared to improve the system to win people's confidence. That said, some complaints are currently being addressed. We will see how the office works in the real world and whether or not it works well. We can continue to improve the process.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

If I'm not mistaken, the office receives complaints or grievances from national level athletes.

Is that correct?

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Actually, it's athletes who belong to organizations that are signatories to the Office of the Sport Integrity Commissioner.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

They are national level athletes, in any event.

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

No, not necessarily. I'll give you an example.

Volleyball Canada has decided to have all member associations sign a contract, and the Office of the Sport Integrity Commissioner is currently conducting an investigation into the culture of Ontario Volleyball. That's why it's important to close the gaps in the system so that everyone has a safe place to turn to.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Is my time up, Madam Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Yes, it is.

Marc Serré, you have five minutes.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you for being here today, Madam Minister. Your testimony will be helpful to us. As you can see, the committee members are working very well together to find ways to make things better.

We've heard testimony about victims, children and athletes. We really need to look at what's currently being done and what needs to be done to make sure that children, girls and women have access to a safe place to lodge complaints and learn what to do.

This morning, we've heard about the Office of the Sport Integrity Commissioner and the process in place for athletes, but some gaps still exist. Some witnesses have said that the office's scope is limited. National level athletes are covered, but university, college and local athletes must also be considered.

Could you explain the process in a little more detail?

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

First, not all national level athletes are currently covered. They should all be by April, as the federal government will suspend funding to any organization that has not become a signatory by that time.

On the other hand, you're right: Even when that's done, we will still have some gaps in the system. Quebec has a mechanism in place that's similar to the federal one, so that athletes at all levels have somewhere to turn when facing situations of abuse or maltreatment. If I'm not mistaken, New Brunswick also has a mechanism like this in place.

However, we need to have them across the country in all provinces and territories, because no matter what level, children entering the sport system should know where to go if they have an unacceptable experience. That seems to me to be the number one priority. I'm reassured that all provinces are committed to doing this, but we need to expedite the process and get this resolved as quickly as possible, because parents and Canadians can't tolerate the stories we're hearing.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

We've heard the same thing here at committee. A number of victims said we need to take action, and I think you said it too. We need to stop them from being re-traumatized. Regardless of the process used, it's important that an investigation be conducted by a third party.

We talked about areas of jurisdiction earlier, and I'd like to hear what you're doing right now, because it would be wrong to say that the provinces are not involved. What are you doing to take a leadership role and encourage them? How can we work more closely with the provinces to take whatever steps are necessary to support victims and athletes?

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

This has to be part of the discussions we want to have with the provinces and territories this week. It's not enough to have a bird's-eye view of the entire system, and we can't focus only on the national level either. That wouldn't address the issues raised by parents and all those who have come forward. Everyone in Canada must agree on the solution so that we can shine a light on this, make recommendations that will help us improve the system at all levels and then work together to improve the sport system. This will be part of the discussions this week. We know it's possible, because Quebec has done it and other provinces are working on it. Now we need to speed things up.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

I have 40 seconds left.

With respect to mental health, what support are victims getting? Can you talk about the agreements with provinces as well?

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

In my discussions with athletes, I was told that psychological support was often performance-based, meaning it was more about helping them outdo themselves. We've made $2.4 million available on an emergency basis so that teams are in place when associations are in crisis, as we saw with the national gymnastics team and Bobsleigh Canada Skeleton, to help athletes and give them the psychological support they need, not just as athletes but as people, as individuals.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you very much.

We'll now move to Sébastien for two and a half minutes.

Go ahead, Sébastien.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Madam Minister, it's not necessarily the question of whether to act or why. I think the answer to those questions is obvious.

When are you going to table your sport policy?