Evidence of meeting #6 for Status of Women in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was abuse.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Lucie Léonard  Director, Canadian Centre for Justice and Community Safety Statistics, Statistics Canada
Lana Wells  Associate Professor, Brenda Strafford Chair in Prevention of Domestic Violence, University of Calgary, As an Individual
Katreena Scott  Professor, Centre for Research and Education on Violence Against Women and Children
Kathy AuCoin  Chief of Analysis Unit, Canadian Centre for Justice and Community Safety Statistics, Statistics Canada
Chantal Arseneault  President, Regroupement des maisons pour femmes victimes de violence conjugale
Louise Riendeau  Co-responsible, Political Issues, Regroupement des maisons pour femmes victimes de violence conjugale

4:40 p.m.

Chief of Analysis Unit, Canadian Centre for Justice and Community Safety Statistics, Statistics Canada

Kathy AuCoin

That's a wonderful question.

When we developed the victimization surveys, we took a lot of care and concern about respondents. Two strategies were used. On the individual's computer, they would follow a link to Statistics Canada and the questions would come up. There was a help button, so if someone was concerned about their safety—perhaps their partner was in the room—they could click that button and it would pop out and go to some other home page within Statistics Canada about cow purchases. I can't remember what it was. Secondary to that, we also added, at the very end, a list of victim services and call centres, if anyone was in need of help.

For the telephone interviews, we trained interviewers to detect if there was a change in patterns between the interviewer and the respondent. Perhaps they were now being reluctant to share stuff. The interviewer would say, “Is this a good time or a bad time?” In addition, they offered respondents links to different victim services. We took a lot of care.

We would never follow up in a secondary survey to ask additional questions. Everything was anonymized. Once you responded to the survey, there was no way for us to contact you again, because your first and last name would have been stripped from the data file.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Thank you very much.

Now we're going to move over to Leah.

Leah, you have two and a half minutes.

4:40 p.m.

NDP

Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Thank you so much, Chair.

My question is for Mrs. Wells. Part of the recommendations that came from Shift was the need to “fund and support [indigenous] community leadership in developing and implementing...initiatives that focus on traditional healing and holistic approaches.”

There are a number of community-driven men's groups that have popped up in Winnipeg—proudly, in the riding that I come from—that focus on men's healing rooted in culture and decolonization, and reviving traditional responsibilities for indigenous men. It has seen some positive results, but I'm wondering if you could share some examples or speak to the need for those kinds of initiatives and for supporting them.

4:40 p.m.

Associate Professor, Brenda Strafford Chair in Prevention of Domestic Violence, University of Calgary, As an Individual

Lana Wells

Definitely. We're working with indigenous elders here and indigenous scholars to lead circles of support. They need to be indigenous-led and supported.

I hope more funding and support will go to indigenous communities, as well as immigrant and racialized communities, because a lot of the support happening for men by men happens in the community and through peer support, and we know that's quite an effective near-peer model. I hope that continues to be invested in.

4:45 p.m.

NDP

Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Thank you so much.

My last question is for either witness from StatsCan. I can't pronounce their names. I'm so sorry. I'm embarrassed.

You spoke about how certain groups—indigenous, sexually or diverse-gendered, and individuals from the disability community—were at higher rates of experiencing violence. Could you identify very quickly the top two factors that made certain groups more at risk?

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

You have about 10 seconds.

4:45 p.m.

Chief of Analysis Unit, Canadian Centre for Justice and Community Safety Statistics, Statistics Canada

Kathy AuCoin

That's a great question. When we've done regression analysis, one of the leading indicators to victimization as an adult was experiencing child maltreatment, and that's when we were controlling for economic factors, ethnicity, age and income. That was not just intimate partner violence, but overall violent victimization. I can send you some reports.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Thank you so much.

On behalf of the committee, I would like to thank all of the witnesses today. I know that we have asked many of you for specific information, so if you could send that documentation to our clerk, we'd really appreciate it. Thank you very much for your time today.

We are going to suspend for just a few seconds, because we're going to switch over to our next panel.

Our panellists can now leave. Thanks. Have a good day.

4:49 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

We are now going to reconvene the meeting.

On behalf of the status of women committee, I would like to welcome the Regroupement des maisons pour femmes victimes de violence conjugale. I thank you for coming today.

We have with us Chantal Arseneault, who is the president, as well as Louise Riendeau, co-responsible, political issues.

I'm going to pass the floor over to them.

You have five minutes.

February 15th, 2022 / 4:49 p.m.

Chantal Arseneault President, Regroupement des maisons pour femmes victimes de violence conjugale

Good afternoon, ladies and gentleman. Thank you for the invitation to appear today.

The team at the Regroupement des maisons pour femmes victimes de violence conjugale was very interested to read the report entitled “The Shadow Pandemic: Stopping Coercive and Controlling Behaviour in Intimate Relationships”. We have studied the effects of criminalizing coercive control in several countries. We believe that Canada should pursue this avenue and study Bill C‑202.

The Divorce Act introduced the concept of coercive and cumulative violence. Now it is important for there to be knowledge and recognition of that reality in all areas of the law.

In addition to enabling many women to report controlling acts and to recognize the repercussions those acts have for them, creating an offence relating to coercive control would entitle women to compensation for victims of crime. This would recognize the violation of women's fundamental rights to dignity and freedom, and hold the aggressor responsible for his actions.

Some countries, including England, Ireland, Scotland, six U.S. states, and Australia, have enacted legislation to criminalize coercive control or are in the process of enacting such legislation. The Scottish approach seems to us to be the most appropriate and worth considering. It recognizes the impact and consequences of controlling behaviours on the victims, including children. The emphasis is placed on the conduct of the perpetrator without having to prove the harm caused to the victim.

Experience in the various countries that have made coercive control a crime shows that it must be accompanied by training for all of the professionals, including judges, so they are able to recognize these behaviours, so they are aware of gender stereotypes, and so they are able to gather evidence. The training should have an intersectional perspective and include the lived experience of indigenous populations or marginalized groups, to avoid those communities being disadvantaged by criminalizing the behaviour. The training must be accompanied by indicators of success and evaluations.

Support for victims and access to resources are essential, as is educating the public and our young people.

On the subject of support for victims in Quebec, there are about 100 houses providing shelter and help. The 44 shelters that belong to our association provide support exclusively to women who are fleeing violence committed by an intimate partner. They offer services to women who need shelter with their children, but also to women who want to be seen on a non-residential basis. The services they provide include supporting women through the legal process and finding housing. The workers at these houses also going to the schools and the community to raise public awareness about violence and to encourage prevention.

In Quebec, we find that there is a shortage of spaces in shelters. In regions like Montreal, the Outaouais and Lanaudière, it is sometimes impossible to find a place for victims. What is needed is not just resources for properties, but also an operating budget.

Since the start of the pandemic, we have seen a large increase in telephone requests and requests for non-residential consultations. However, we have also seen a limited supply of services because of the shortage of workers. On top of that, the terms of employment that our shelters are able to offer are not very attractive. An increase in transfers to the provinces might help them better fund the resources, as would a review of the programs offered by the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation.

Economic issues also prevent women from leaving their violent spouse. They need to have access to affordable housing, safe social housing, a decent income, and an employment integration program, to reorganize their lives.

Immigration status can also prevent women from fleeing their partner's violence, when the victim is dependent on her spouse, for example, or in sponsorship or joint application situations. We have to provide women with autonomous status and access to language courses.

Preventing spousal violence necessarily involves educating children from the earliest years. They have to learn about egalitarian relationships, consent, healthy sexuality, and so on. The shelters often lack resources to send workers to the schools so they can work with students on a more regular and intensive basis.

In closing, I would like to point out that when there is no physical violence, not everyone recognizes the presence of spousal violence, be it the victims, the ones committing the violence, or their family and friends. It is therefore important that awareness campaigns showing the various aspects of coercive control be carried out intensively and on a regular basis.

Thank you.

4:49 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Thank you so much. You were right on time at five minutes.

We're going to start our first round. You will each have six minutes. We'll start with Dominique.

You have the floor for six minutes.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Dominique Vien Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC

I would like to thank you for being here today, Ms. Arseneault and Ms. Riendeau.

Ms. Arseneault, you have brought up a number of things. Having said that, I would like to start at the beginning: if we want action, we need money. You mentioned the need to have an operating budget. We have also heard about the differences between urban and rural communities.

Your association has 44 shelters for women victims of spousal violence located all over Quebec. Tell us about the services you offer and the funding you say you need. Are you short of money at present?

4:55 p.m.

President, Regroupement des maisons pour femmes victimes de violence conjugale

Chantal Arseneault

Yes, we are short of money at present. Our association includes 44 shelters spread throughout Quebec. Yes, the urban and rural situations are very different.

We need consolidated funding. Shelter services are very important, but the needs for non-residential consultations and crisis lines have risen astronomically during the pandemic. We need to consolidate our teams to be able to double up during work shifts and answer the calls.

There is also the entire awareness aspect, involving prevention and training. Our partners need training in spousal violence and information about how to assess risk levels. Our workers are real experts in this field.

So those are the fields of expertise where we need additional funding.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Dominique Vien Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC

At present, I assume you are getting money from the Government of Quebec to support the shelters. Do you get any money from the federal government?

4:55 p.m.

Louise Riendeau Co-responsible, Political Issues, Regroupement des maisons pour femmes victimes de violence conjugale

We don't. The recurrent grants come mainly from the government of Quebec.

For all of the shelters, the ones that are members of our association, that is, and the other women's shelters, we estimate that it would take about $143 million. That is not how much is paid at present. We are short about $30 million.

That is why we say it is important to increase the federal transfers to help the province meet the needs.

The money we get from the federal government covers pandemic-related costs, but we don't receive regular amounts...

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Dominique Vien Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC

You don't have money for your mission.

4:55 p.m.

Co-responsible, Political Issues, Regroupement des maisons pour femmes victimes de violence conjugale

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Dominique Vien Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC

You say that you don't have the money to do education in the schools.

We had experts tell us a few minutes ago that a child who has witnessed spousal violence is obviously at higher risk, later on, of becoming a victim, in turn, or of being violent.

You give women and children a place to stay in your shelters. When you have young children come in, what kind of intervention can you do with them?

4:55 p.m.

President, Regroupement des maisons pour femmes victimes de violence conjugale

Chantal Arseneault

What we do is entirely adapted to each child's situation. You have to understand that the children who come into the shelters have suffered a shock, after witnessing crises. We give them space to allow them to be children again. We try to translate what they have experienced into children's words, to validate it. By working that way, we allow them to name things, to differentiate between what is good and what isn't, and we help them to make more informed choices later.

We see this in our adolescents: they clearly recognize controlling strategies, when you make the effort to give them the information. We think this can truly change things.

We also address social stereotypes with children in the shelters.

In fact, our range of intervention is pretty broad.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Dominique Vien Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC

You said that certain situations might deter women from fleeing a violent relationship. It is easy to imagine that.

Would you say that the main reason preventing women from leaving a violent situation is financial?

5 p.m.

Co-responsible, Political Issues, Regroupement des maisons pour femmes victimes de violence conjugale

Louise Riendeau

Yes, absolutely. We did a survey at the start of the pandemic to ask women whether they had asked for help, and a lot of women said they had not asked for help because they were afraid of not finding housing. So yes, access to a decent income and access to housing are essential conditions. There are women who are discouraged by the cost of housing being too high and decide to go back with their spouse. So those are very important factors.

We have thought a lot about the justice system and psychosocial support, but there has not been enough work done on the whole question of economic and social rights to help the victims get away from spousal violence.

In Australia, when a woman leaves a shelter after fleeing violence, she can be given up to $5,000 to relocate.

5 p.m.

Conservative

Dominique Vien Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC

I would have liked you to talk to us about coercive control as well, but I suppose others of my colleagues will allow you to do that.

Thank you, ladies.

5 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Thank you very much.

I'm now going to pass the floor over to Emmanuella. You have six minutes.

5 p.m.

Liberal

Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC

I thought I was second. I apologize for that.

Thank you very much for being with us today—

5 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

I apologize. You are second. I am so sorry about this.

I am just like Dominique. I should borrow her glasses.

You are second on this, Emmanuella. I'm going to let you guys decide how to roll it, but it's either you or Jenna.

That's my fault. I'm sorry.