Status of Women Committee on June 12th, 2023

[Linda Biggs]

I can start.

I know that for us, when we launched in 2020, we were gathering data on what menstrual equity looked like in Canada. There is limited data from a federal perspective. There are a lot of individual studies in each region, but it would really be great to have a very team Canada approach to what it looks like holistically as a country.

When it comes to funding, a lot more research in this space would be very beneficial to be able to better understand some of the challenges that communities and individuals are facing in this area.

[Leisa Hirtz]

I can speak to product innovation and the support that we have received through NSERC alliance grants. Historically, we've received a number of grants, and they have helped to develop the product and the continuation of new product developments.

Again, speaking to the team Canada approach to keep building on this, there's so much that Canada can be doing to advance and be the leader in period poverty and menstrual product development around the world.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Ms. Hill, did you address the issue of research and innovation in British Columbia in your study?

If any other witness would like to add anything, I would invite them to do so. Otherwise, I'll ask another question.

[Nicola Hill]

In B.C., part of our task force work has been to bring together businesses—you've mentioned a few of them, and some of them are in the room—that we've worked with for a long time as a reference group so we can have these conversations about what policy change they need from government.

We're very lucky to have these incredible business leaders, and, again, many of them are appearing before you and can speak to the research and innovation. I also think the partnership piece is very important when it comes to reusable and sustainable products.

In B.C., we've had what we call the Period Promise policy agreement, which is for workplaces, civic municipalities and post-secondary campuses. They can sign and commit to providing menstrual products in washrooms. A number of those have committed to a system of vouchers or grants with sustainable products, which provides that research.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much, Nicola.

I'm now going to pass it online for two and a half minutes with Bonita.

Bonita, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm going to ask my question of Ms. Biggs, and then, if I have time, Ms. Hill could also follow up with some comments.

Ms. Biggs, you mentioned your participation in sports when you were younger. When I go to visit high school students, I often hear from girls and diverse genders that they didn't take part in sport and certainly didn't go to out-of-town competitions or take part in competitive sports because of the lack of access to menstrual products.

I wonder if you could share what you think the government could do to assist in that? The federal government does fund sports organizations in this country. How could we use those avenues and those tools to ensure that everyone gets to take part equitably in sport?

[Linda Biggs]

It's definitely a great first step, that funding. Education is very important in this space. Anecdotally, concerning my own story as a swimmer, it was the use of tampons, because sometimes there's a lot of stigma around the use of an insertable product. When you build that education piece in, you could bring some awareness around that, and then it provides people with more potential options. I think it's very important to educate those young children, people in sports, to be able to understand what their options are.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

Ms. Hill, do you have any comments about that? Is there anything you've heard in your work around the limitations of sports and participation?

[Nicola Hill]

Absolutely, we've seen that in all the data. One thing that shows leadership is when sports teams and community centres stand together.

Recently in Victoria, the Q Centre and, I think, four of the sports teams decided to endorse menstrual products in their washrooms with Period Promise so that kids going into those facilities will always have the access they need and won't have to avoid....

That's a great model for other sports teams in the country.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you so much.

I'd like to ask one more question of Ms. Hirtz around the cost differential. I am interested in understanding, on a monthly cycle, how much more economical and sustainable a reusable product could be.

[Leisa Hirtz]

I can speak about the example of a menstrual cup, in particular the Bfree Cup, which can be used for upwards of, and sometimes over, 10 years. Compare that to the purchase of traditional products—let's say tampons or pads—that are available from multinationals. At about five or six months or even less—three to four months—you've already paid the price of a Bfree Cup.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

That's fantastic.

We're now going to move on and finish this round. We'll have Dominique for five minutes and Marc Serré for five minutes.

I will then look at how much time we have left, because I believe it will probably be about two minutes per group before we go and finish the meeting.

Dominique, you have five minutes.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Ms. Hirtz, on TV and in magazines, we see ads for tampons and sanitary pads. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong magazines and TV channels, but you don't see ads for reusable menstrual products. I see my colleagues nodding their heads in agreement. Are these products not there?

Also, what reaction do you anticipate from the business community if they are asked to pay for their employees' menstrual products?

[Leisa Hirtz]

Yes, it's a great question, and it's a great point that you see a lot of ads for Poise for incontinence, as well as ads for pads and tampons, those particular ads on TV. It's very expensive. We're small and medium-sized enterprises, and we're looking at ways that we can properly market and get the knowledge out there. I think most of us are doing it through social media.

I take your point, but it's very costly.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Maybe it's a generational thing. Women of my generation didn't have access to reusable products.

[Leisa Hirtz]

Right.

[Suzanne Siemens]

Yes.

If I may respond to that.... We are reaching our customers the way they want to be reached. They are using social media. They are using tools that are accessible to them in what they enjoy accessing.

In response to employers' providing the cost for this product, as was addressed earlier, reusables save, in our particular case, 15 to 20 times the cost of disposables because you're not constantly replenishing them in the washrooms and dealing with facilities and storage. We can provide good data to employers on how much money they will actually save by providing reusables to their staff. The staff have that convenience, too, if they're particularly working from home, which is quite a significant number of folks, as well. There's a very strong economic argument, as well as an environmental argument.

[Leisa Hirtz]

If I could just add one point there in terms of the cost of disposal and the disposable with regard to the bathroom, the facilities.... These are not flushable. I'm talking about the non-reusables, the single-use products. The cost of waste management really doesn't come into account when most people are talking about this issue. However, it's quite costly because they're meant to go to incineration.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

There's so much of everything now.

With the witnesses in the room having responded, do the witnesses who are online have a response?

What reaction from the business world should we expect? Some will say that these are additional costs, so they'll pass the bill on to customers. Others will say they could include this in working conditions, which could be attractive to women. What reaction do you anticipate?

[Nicola Hill]

Thank you.

We have partners here in B.C. that are large companies—Pacific Blue Cross and Vancity—in addition to a number of unions, organizations, government crowns and municipalities. I think that, initially, people look at the cost and think it's prohibitive. When they understand that it should be as basic as what they're doing in terms of their other washroom provisions, they can see where it's actually very cost-efficient, particularly if you talk about things like people coming to work and being able to be productive and be in their workplaces. We have not had a significant push-back, and we do have agreements with some pretty large employers.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much.

We're now going to go online to Marc Serré.

Marc, you have five minutes.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to thank all the witnesses who have presented good recommendations today, which will benefit our study on menstrual equity for women, girls, trans and non-binary people. Menstrual equity and poverty in Canada are very important topics.

Before I ask my first question, I'd like to mention that private sector employers have a responsibility, period. They already provide soap and toilet paper, but they don't ask employees to pay for them. So, since half of the employees in the private sector are women, businesses should also cover the cost of menstrual products.

You all talked a bit about the philanthropic role you play and the importance of accessibility, that is, reaching young girls and women in rural areas and in schools. You also talked about home delivery of products.

Ms. Biggs, what could the federal government do to help the private and philanthropic sectors encourage reach out into rural areas, homes and schools?

[Linda Biggs]

I think the labour code changes are a great start to set the tone for what is required when we're going into our workplaces. As you mentioned, just like toilet paper is provided—we never question the cost of that; it's an essential product—so, we feel, should menstrual care products. We should also look at the opportunity costs for not having them there and the statistics around how people leave their work to find a solution.

When we're talking to the private workplaces, it's the same concept. You have a team here, and you're looking at procuring toilet paper. How do you then implement into your workplace another essential product that 26% of the population is going to use?

Really, it's the conversations around that. They're very similar.

However, the rural communities.... One of the issues that we saw was a distribution issue, as you mentioned. The collaboration piece with our non-profit partners that are in those communities has been an essential way for us to get that reach with our donated products. A lot of the non-profit partners involved in this, as witnesses here today and in prior meetings, are in those communities, having those important conversations. We work directly with them, and with dozens of them across Canada, to be able to reach those communities.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you for that.

My second question is for Jillian Johnston.

We talked about the role of the private sector, and you mentioned the labour code changes that are happening. You talked with my colleague earlier about some of the recommendations for those synergies with the private sector and the federal government—and with the provinces, to a certain extent.

When we talk about menstrual products, obviously there's a physical cost to those, but you also mentioned the education. A lot of the witnesses talked about education. This morning, for example, there was an article on menopause at the workplace. Ten per cent of women are quitting their jobs because of the stigma attached to menopause. That represents about a billion dollars lost to the Canadian economy.

I want to know if there's a link to what you're doing on the employer side—education—when you talk about menstrual products. Also, how do you look at the continuum when you look at menopause, when you look at the entire lifespan at the workplace? Are there any links? Are there any recommendations you would have for us federally?

[Jillian Johnston]

Thank you. That's a great question.

In our work, we keep coming back to the definition of menstrual health, and I would encourage you to look into the notes that I provided and see what the definition is. It is incredibly thorough and comprehensive, and it covers everything including the lifespan of a person who menstruates.

We do look at not just the period as the five days when there is bleeding and there's a problem, but we look at that 28 days that happens every 28 days for a very long span, and then menstruation comes to an end with menopause, yet that's still part of the menstrual cycle, so you're right.

You have done your homework. Thank you very much for bringing that up. It's pretty important to remember that, and we hope to be able to share through our virtual sessions with the project we're doing with the period-positive workplace. That's the kind of education we want to share.