Status of Women Committee on March 4th, 2022

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you. I hate rushing everybody, but I have so much I want to get to.

[Michael Jason Gyovai]

Yes.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

I hope there is a documented thing of federal safeguards for children and social media. I hope that makes into our committee report.

I want to talk a little about building trust, because I think that's the essence of all of the things here.

It's interesting, because before I heard you talk, Tim, I didn't actually know as much as you explained, which was great, about lived experience—men who've actually come out on the other side and are now trying to restore themselves. Are you working, or would you suggest working, with police and the Boys and Girls Club? Because they've been on the other side. They know those telltale signs and they can talk to police in terms of negotiating and all of these things for restorative justice, the lived experience aspect, to build the trust with these domestic violence cases that sometimes women just do not want to report.

[Tim Kelly]

Absolutely. It's certainly one of the things that we as an organization.... I know that many of the men's programs across Ontario, which are the ones I know the best, have relationships with local police departments or provincial police departments and other services that are there in our communities.

The other place that I think is really key for us to be thinking about is connecting with child welfare and how the families that we're talking about, the types of behaviours that we're looking at, show up in child welfare much earlier than they'll show up in a police report. In fact, when police go out on a call and there isn't necessarily evidence of a charge to be laid, they will make a referral to child welfare and move that investigation over there.

There are lots of opportunities to be working within our communities and within our broader provincial and federal communities to really begin to look at it. What are those intersectional points at which these families and these men come into our system? We know from our own research that we've done over the years that they show up in general practice offices with their doctors. They show up in child welfare situations. They show up in all kinds of places.

It's about working within those communities of service providers to actually grab these guys and begin to do that work with them. I think that work is absolutely informed by men who've gone through this process.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you so much.

Am I out of time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

You are. You have four seconds. Thank you so much.

We're going to now move over to Sonia Sidhu.

Sonia, you have six minutes.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to all the witnesses.

My first question is for the Boys and Girls Club.

Thank you, Mr. Gyovai. I want to say thank you to the Boys and Girls Club people for their 40th anniversary. Thanks for all the work you are doing in the community, giving safe space to Brampton youth.

In this committee we have heard that young people are experiencing violence at alarming rates. For some youth, relationships can turn abusive. You mentioned that teens were the largest group there. How can we provide teens, parents and educators with the resources to recognize and prevent teen dating violence?

[Michael Jason Gyovai]

Thank you, Sonia, for that question.

One of the biggest things we need to do is to start listening to our youth about what they want and provide them with an opportunity to have their voices heard, not just through BGC but throughout Canada. We provide opportunities for peer-to-peer development and peer-to-peer mentoring and training, so they have a comfortable outlet in which to talk. Within local communities, there needs to be—and I know we talked all about this through COVID—true collaboration with the end result of serving these youths who need the guidance.

I have two teenagers myself. Many youth are very awkward, so opportunities need to be made available for them to speak to their peers or to individuals who have been in situations they've been in. If there are opportunities through the federal government to download additional funding towards community engagement for organizations—be it BGC or others—we need to provide those safe and easily accessible places for our youth to go.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

We know that children who grow up in homes with violence are more likely to form relationships later in life where they are either a victim or an abuser. Can you tell us what interventions you use to coach children to avoid this pattern and break the cycle of abuse?

[Michael Jason Gyovai]

To an earlier point, it's prevention. It's not just through organizations like BGC. It needs to start within our school boards. It needs to start within our overall community engagement and in how we speak to the children about their value and what they bring to society. Talk to the kids about their passions. Talk to the kids within the context of what is happening in their lives. Make accessible the professionals who actually know how to handle these situations and, more importantly, know how to engage with the youth.

It comes down to the way we communicate.

Sonia, as you know from living in the Brampton region of Peel, we're one of the most diverse communities across Canada. There's a need to be able to access interpreters and resources for newcomers. In BGC, 75% of our members are newcomers within the last five years. They need a go-to place where they can get these resources without feeling afraid and without feeling ashamed, just so they can get a better understanding of what it means to be Canadian.

I think that sometimes we forget that a lot of our new immigrants come from countries where.... It's not that domestic violence is accepted, but unfortunately it's the norm. When they come to Canada, we want to make sure they feel as safe and as comfortable as they can.

It takes all levels of government. In Peel's case, it takes all four levels of government to make sure that these resources are accessible and available at no cost. There should be no cost for someone's safety.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Madam Chair, my next question is for the representative from the Canadian Association Chiefs of Police.

Cybercrime and online bullying are on the rise. Criminals are especially targeting girls and teens online. We need new tools against these new challenges.

In your opinion, do think cybersecurity training or...? What kinds of safeguards or solutions are you recommending?

[Chief Francis Lanouette]

I will let Ms. Greenwood answer your question, Ms. Sidhu.

[Chief Kimberley Greenwood]

Thank you very much.

When we look at cybercrime, the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police does have a group that focuses in on cybercrime. We know and have seen that children and youth are victimized through the use of cybercrime.

The tools that we recommend and all the initiatives we're involved in start with awareness and education for those impacted and for the police officers who are involved with the youth. We look at engagement with the parents and the agencies that work with youth and children, from our education system to our social agencies. The last part is the enforcement involved in these cases. It's a multipronged approach to looking at cybercrime as it relates to intimate relationships between children and youth.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Do you think cybersecurity training is going to be helpful?

[Chief Kimberley Greenwood]

The training for youth and police, every tool that makes our community safer and focuses on prevention, intervention and reducing victimization, we're all supportive of those types of initiatives.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

That's wonderful. Thank you so much.

We're now going to move to Andréanne.

Andréanne, you have six minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses on the second panel, which was very diverse. They gave us their point of view, and that helps us to do our work. Thank you to Mr. Gyovai, Mr. Lanouette, Mr. Kelly and Ms. Greenwood.

I would like to address the issue of the criminalization of coercive control, as well as training stakeholders in the justice system, including police officers and judges. In the first round of questions, we briefly discussed the importance of working on the issue of coercive control.

These accumulated measures should be seen as tools that can be used to counter the problem of intimate partner violence and domestic violence.

I would like to hear from the two representatives of the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police about the training of resources in the justice system.

In order to better support women who are victims of domestic violence, do you believe it is necessary to broaden the notion of coercive physical violence throughout the reporting process? Are you missing tools to better accompany victims?

You talked about what is being done in Quebec, namely the specialized court, and tracking bracelets. I would now like you to talk about how important it is for the federal government and the Criminal Code to take into account what is being done in Quebec to improve outcomes for victims.

[Chief Francis Lanouette]

For about a year or a year and a half, the association has undertaken research that does indeed focus on coercive control. The experiences of the United Kingdom, that is to say Scotland, Wales and England, have demonstrated the importance of training all direct and indirect stakeholders. Training on coercive control is needed not only for police officers, but also for all those working in the justice system, such as lawyers and judges. The specialized court, a model being developed in Quebec, is a step in this direction.

In our view, this is essential, but we need to go further. For instance, community organizations must be included as well. It is necessary for all agencies that revolve around victims of domestic violence to have a good understanding of coercive control.

We have talked about tools. I would like to clarify that the research is also focused on developing screening tools for the public and for police officers. The goal is to get to the point where we can properly outline the concept of coercive violence and enter elements of coercive control into evidence. Naturally, this requires amending the Criminal Code. You can't make an amendment to a section of the code without a training component.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

You talked about training, but also about legislation currently under consideration, Bill C‑202, which could help support initiatives implemented in Quebec.

[Chief Francis Lanouette]

Initiatives are being implemented in Quebec and throughout Canada.

The notion of coercive control is now appearing in various assessment tools much more frequently, including those used by police and community agencies. Five or six years ago, in Canada, this terminology was used much less, but it is now up to date. We realize that we need to be able to broaden the concept.

Let's take the example of Scotland. That country has chosen to make domestic violence an offence under the Criminal Code. This offence takes into account the whole aspect of coercive control.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Another issue was raised, the infamous relapses, this is to say when women return to their violent spouse. Unfortunately, this undermines the healing process.

How do police officers deal with relapses? How can we better intervene with both parties? What would ensure that women don't return to their violent spouse?

[Chief Francis Lanouette]

Ms. Greenwood, do you want to answer the question?

[Chief Kimberley Greenwood]

Thank you very much for that.

If you look at some of the research that is being conducted across the country within police services, we're looking to improve the accuracy of our forecasting high-harm intimate partner violence offenders. We're looking to assess the reduction of repeat victimization from an offender perspective.

We need to work collaboratively with our service partners to ensure that victims have the right tools to support them as they move forward, away from the abuse, or if they do return to individuals who have abused them in the past, they need to have the support so that, if they need to exit again, they have had a successful assessment done of their situation and they have a program whereby they can exit as soon as possible.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

If I understood correctly, it is also important to study what is being done elsewhere throughout the world so that we can learn from it. This would help improve processes for helping victims in Canada, wouldn't it?

[Chief Francis Lanouette]

Of course, looking at what has been done in the United Kingdom and elsewhere...