Evidence of meeting #8 for Status of Women in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was survivors.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Erin Whitmore  Executive Director, Ending Violence Association of Canada
Meseret Haileyesus  Executive Director, Canadian Center for Women's Empowerment (CCFWE)
Yasmin Hussain  Manager, Public Education and Community Programs, Muslim Resource Centre for Social Support and Integration
Michael Jason Gyovai  Executive Director, BGC Peel
Kimberley Greenwood  Co-Chair, Victims of Crime Committee, Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police
Francis Lanouette  Co-Chair of the Crime Prevention, Community Safety and Well-being Committee, Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police
Tim Kelly  Executive Director, Changing Ways Inc.

1:35 p.m.

Bloc

Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC

Thank you very much.

Ms. Haileyesus, you spoke at length about financial crimes, but in terms of criminal justice, how do you think adding a clearer definition of coercive control to the Criminal Code would prevent more spousal abuse and femicides? This definition currently lacks clarity.

I would also like to address Ms. Whitmore, who raised the issue of specialized support. In Quebec, right now, the Ministry of Public Security is doing a study on specialized courts. Obviously, changes will have to be made to the Criminal Code. Tracking bracelets are also being studied. The federal government will have to make the appropriate changes to the Criminal Code.

So I would like to hear from Ms. Haileyesus or Ms. Whitmore on this, or even Ms. Hussain, if she wants to add something.

1:35 p.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Center for Women's Empowerment (CCFWE)

Meseret Haileyesus

I can probably answer the first question.

Definitely yes, if we could make coercive control an offence, definitely it would really help women. Economic abuse is a behaviour that is in line with coercive control. I think that's very helpful, so we'll continue advocating.

Maybe I will leave the second question for Erin. I'm not a lawyer, but this is my observation and opinion.

1:35 p.m.

Executive Director, Ending Violence Association of Canada

Dr. Erin Whitmore

Thank you very much.

Some of these initiatives related to making changes in the Criminal Code and implementing various legislation are potentially important tools that can provide supports to some survivors. Certainly we're looking forward to seeing some of the work that's taking place in Quebec around the specialized sexual violence courts.

I think, though, that when we're talking about criminal justice reforms, we really do have to also make sure that any type of legislative change is informed by input from survivors and anti-violence workers. We must make sure it is accompanied by resourcing that will allow for the training that will be necessary for law enforcement officials and the actors in the criminal justice system to make sure these initiatives can actually be implemented in a meaningful way.

I'll just make one final point to say that we also have to remember that the vast majority of survivors do not access the criminal justice system. It is really not seen as a safe place, particularly for indigenous, Black or racialized survivors, so our efforts need to go beyond just criminal justice reforms.

1:35 p.m.

Bloc

Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC

Ms. Hussain, if you want to add to that, you may do so.

You spoke of best practices in terms of the different types of measures, whether it's specialized courts or tracking bracelets. You also mentioned that we should look at what other countries are doing.

Do you have any other examples for us?

1:35 p.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Center for Women's Empowerment (CCFWE)

Meseret Haileyesus

We did different assessments in many countries. We adopted those best practices in Canada. In Australia, for example, there is a financial code of practice among their financial institutions. Also, in the U.K. they have developed a financial code of practice to protect survivors.

This code of practice has really helped financial institutions to educate and to put policy and practices in place to protect survivors.

Also we have seen—

1:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

I'm going to have to cut you off so we can continue.

I'm going to move on now to Leah Gazan.

Leah, you have six minutes.

1:40 p.m.

NDP

Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Thank you so much.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today with your excellent testimony.

My first question is for Madam Whitmore. Your organization released a report, which was the national action plan community engagement initiative summary of findings. One thing you spoke about is the need to decriminalize sex work and support sex workers' labour movements.

Could you please share a little bit about why you made that recommendation and how this would support addressing intimate partner violence and violence against women?

1:40 p.m.

Executive Director, Ending Violence Association of Canada

Dr. Erin Whitmore

I think that it is a really complex issue that continues to need further research. I know that another committee is currently conducting sessions on that issue.

One thing we know, when we're talking about issues related to sex work, is that there is a need to make sure that recommendations are informed by the people who are working in that industry and those who are supporting them. What we have heard from people who are on the ground doing that work is that current legislation does not necessarily work to prevent violence and risk for those doing that work.

1:40 p.m.

NDP

Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

I also know that you recommended a guaranteed livable basic income, which I was really happy to see.

I'll move to Madam Haileyesus.

You talked about economic abuse. I've asked this question in other committees, the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls, article 4.5, directly calls for the implementation of a guaranteed livable basic income for all Canadians as a way to mitigate this crisis of violence.

Would you agree that a guaranteed livable basic income would assist women and diverse-gendered individuals to escape violence or not be as susceptible to economic abuse?

1:40 p.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Center for Women's Empowerment (CCFWE)

Meseret Haileyesus

Yes. One of the reasons for economic abuse is their living conditions. Definitely, if we could have the infrastructure and support for our women, it would also be very important.

1:40 p.m.

NDP

Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Has your organization endorsed the need for a guaranteed livable basic income?

1:40 p.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Center for Women's Empowerment (CCFWE)

Meseret Haileyesus

Right now, our national task force, actually, in 2022, has a plan to review a universal income benefit. We'll come up with some policy recommendations, and maybe we can pass it before the House sometime soon.

1:40 p.m.

NDP

Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Yes. That sounds wonderful.

I have another question, for Madam Hussain.

You spoke about the need for community initiatives that are culturally informed and trauma informed and bringing individuals together with like experiences as critical in addressing intimate partner violence. Could you expand on that a bit?

1:40 p.m.

Manager, Public Education and Community Programs, Muslim Resource Centre for Social Support and Integration

Yasmin Hussain

Yes. Thank you for your question.

There are such diverse experiences around gender-based violence, and survivors have such unique experiences. In the community we work with, already you're experiencing isolation from within your community, within the social context of wider Canadian society or from services. Having a space that builds a safe space as a first foundation, where their experiences are recognized and named, which oftentimes also doesn't even happen within the communities they exist in, where I think sometimes forms of violence....

We all exist within norms. Every cultural community does. However, it's recognizing the specificity of those norms. Norms might look different. Norms that minimize violence or reinforce violence and victim-blame, all of those exist across communities and across cultures, but it looks different in communities and cultures. Bringing together spaces where there is a shared experience or recognition of how norms that reinforce control and abuse exist and happen is a powerful starting point to being able to name experiences and to challenge or disrupt those experiences.

Also, in terms of the experience, recognizing that people come with experiences moving to Canada or integration stressors, those are unique stressors that immigrants or newcomers face. Having those validated in spaces where people recognize shared experiences is really important. Sometimes it's easy to minimize, even for survivors or victims themselves, some of the isolation or the harm or marginalization they experience within systems because it's not named or validated elsewhere.

To me, that's an important starting point for empowerment.

1:45 p.m.

NDP

Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

How do those barriers differ for specific groups? You spoke about immigrant women, refugee women and women with a disability—

1:45 p.m.

Manager, Public Education and Community Programs, Muslim Resource Centre for Social Support and Integration

Yasmin Hussain

Absolutely. That's even within newcomer communities. We work within the diversity of the Muslim community, but the Muslim community is not homogenous. Syrian women might have very different barriers than Afghan women, or folks who identify as LGBTQ will have different barriers.

We always have to be very careful about it. There are shared experiences, but even with groups, there are very unique experiences. Therefore, we always have to make space for those unique experiences and look for where the most vulnerable or where the marginalized are, even within collective community identities.

1:45 p.m.

NDP

Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Thank you.

1:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Thank you so much.

We're now going to switch to our second round. Due to time limitations, I'm going take time away from people. We're going to do four minutes for the CPC and LPC, and then we're down to two minutes for the NDP and the Bloc.

I welcome Shelby Kramp to our committee.

Shelby, you have four minutes.

March 4th, 2022 / 1:45 p.m.

Conservative

Shelby Kramp-Neuman Conservative Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair. It's delightful being here.

I think we can all recognize that this is a complex, raw and very emotional issue for many people. I'll start by thanking our witnesses for being present.

We, around the table today, all have a voice and our role is to advocate and to make relevant legislation. My alarming concern is that there are so many young men and women in my riding of Hastings—Lennox and Addington and people across the country who feel that they don't have that voice. As we all know, abuse comes in many forms. It's sexual, physical, emotional and financial.

Ms. Whitmore actually said this earlier. She mentioned that we're great at gathering recommendations, and it's key, but it's more essential that we move swiftly to actually implement the recommendations that are on the table. That really needs to be a focus.

How do we break the barriers for young men and women who are embarrassed to speak up? Most of our teenagers are on social media. I have two daughters myself. They're on TikTok, Instagram and Snapchat. Is that a platform, for example, where there are messages going out to communicate with these young adults?

1:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Who would you like to take the question?

1:45 p.m.

Conservative

Shelby Kramp-Neuman Conservative Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON

Anyone can answer that one. I'll address the next question more specifically.

1:45 p.m.

Executive Director, Ending Violence Association of Canada

Dr. Erin Whitmore

Sure, I can try that question.

I think that it's so important, as you're saying, to break barriers about speaking out and to let people know that it is safe to speak out. In order to do that, we have to make sure that there are the supports available so that they can get them when they take the courageous step of speaking out.

Part of what needs to be done is addressing some of the stigma that young people can feel when they talk about being sexually abused or assaulted or experiencing other forms of violence. That comes back to doing that early prevention work early on, which isn't just talking about violence but also the harmful beliefs, norms and gender stereotypes that sort of play into violence.

1:45 p.m.

Conservative

Shelby Kramp-Neuman Conservative Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON

Thank you.

My next question refers to Clare's Law. I'm hoping that you're all familiar with it. It's the right to know and the right to ask. It's already enforced in Alberta and Saskatchewan. Are you familiar with this? It's based out of the U.K. Do you think this would be a solution that we could entertain?

My second question is more specifically addressed to Madam Haileyesus. My former career is a financial adviser, and I was 12 years in the financial field. You mentioned elder financial abuse and that financial institutions are helping to stop it. How can we translate that action that's already happened? Is it consistent or similar so that we could use that for young adults?

1:50 p.m.

Executive Director, Ending Violence Association of Canada

Dr. Erin Whitmore

I can briefly jump in about Clare's Law just to say that, yes, we are familiar with Clare's Law. I would sort of echo the point that I made earlier around Clare's Law being one tool that may provide support for some survivors, but for it to be effective, it really needs to have resourcing available for the training that would need to happen as well as enough resources for people who are experiencing violence to access legal support if necessary.

I think we really want to be careful that something like Clare's Law doesn't put additional onus on victims in any way for leaving situations.

1:50 p.m.

Conservative

Shelby Kramp-Neuman Conservative Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON

Yes, thank you.