Status of Women Committee on Nov. 6th, 2023

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

That's very unfortunate. This was a business that served children with special needs, so it was very important work you were doing. The people who were accessing your services, how were they paying for those services?

[Cadleen Désir]

There were two ways to have access. They could pay at the clinic directly, with their insurance, or there was a special program in day cares that took care of children with disabilities.

The day care centres were subsidized to provide our services. Otherwise, parents paid directly for our services in the clinic.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you.

What I'm trying to pick at here is this: I see parents in precarious situations, and the cost of living crisis has had a massive role in this. Consequently, when clients are impacted, the business owner is then ultimately impacted as well.

Would you say the cost of living crisis and inflation have been a big factor for you?

[Cadleen Désir]

Back home, we had waiting lists. So our challenge wasn't a lack of clients. Our challenge stemmed from the fact that schools and day cares were closed for six months during the pandemic. For six months, we lost all our clients. We invested in technology, but given the cost of renting space, which had a significant financial impact, and the fact that we no longer had any clients, we had to make a choice, and we closed our doors.

However, the closure wasn't due to a lack of clients. The need for services for children with special needs is enormous. We had waiting lists. Parents who had more means could access these services more easily, but a large segment of the population could no longer access them because these people couldn't afford speech-language pathology services at $120 an hour, for example.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Exactly.

What I was trying to say may have been lost in translation, but there's a massive need—one hundred per cent. You were already dealing with people who were squeezed out. It becomes harder and harder for them, the more the cost of living increases. The people who get hurt the most are marginalized to begin with. It's very challenging.

I commend you for the service you were doing. It's unfortunate that your business had to close its doors, because there are so many children. We're seeing an increase in neurodivergence, as well, in children.

Thank you.

I will move to Ms. Barnett.

Ms. Barnett, how many female entrepreneurs do you represent or know of within your region?

[Clare Barnett]

I don't think I could give you an exact number. The city of Brampton has about 70,000 businesses of all sizes, from entrepreneurs all the way up. The Brampton Entrepreneur Centre services thousands every year.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

If you have access to that information, you can table it with the committee. I think those stats are really valuable in terms of the numbers. Even looking at comparative values, what was that number five or 10 years ago? Where is it today? If you have that information, it would be very valuable to see if we're seeing an increase in women-run businesses. Is it staying the same or decreasing?

How many of those businesses...? Obviously, if you don't know that number, you might not know the answer to this next question.

How many do you find are represented in STEM—science, technology, engineering or mathematics?

[Clare Barnett]

The Brampton Entrepreneur Centre services men, women and non-binary people. We don't differentiate between them.

There are members of our innovation district that have programs specifically for women. I can send you the numbers from the Rogers Cybersecure Catalyst, for example, which has programs specifically for women. I can send you that data as well.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

That would be great.

Do you know how many businesses...? Obviously, if you don't keep track of women...this study is primarily designed to study women.

How many businesses have gone out of business in the last eight years?

[Clare Barnett]

In the last eight years...? We can look at that data. We have been looking at data since COVID—what happened to businesses since COVID and which sectors they were in. We can look at that data as well for you.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

I think it will be interesting if we can see business starts versus businesses going out.

One of the areas for this study is access to financing. I know, as a entrepreneur myself before—and being a single mom—it was virtually impossible to secure financing for businesses. Has that been an issue?

I would ask Ms. Désir. Was it an issue for you to access financing for your business?

[Cadleen Désir]

In fact, when I wanted to start a business, I was pregnant. I was turned down 10 times. They said that I couldn't start a business because I was pregnant. I went back to the institution where I got my mortgage, and they offered me a $500 credit card. That's how I started my business.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much. I'm sure we'll have more questions coming from that.

I'm now going to pass it over to Sonia Sidhu.

Sonia, you have six minutes.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for being with us.

Clare, thank you very much for the work you are doing at the Brampton Entrepreneur Centre. I have visited many times and seen how you are supporting all women. It is amazing.

Today, I really want you to tell us if women-owned businesses are fewer or smaller than male-owned businesses. In Canada, 18% of businesses with more than 20 employees are owned by women.

What more can the federal government do to support women-owned businesses so that they can face fewer challenges?

[Clare Barnett]

Thank you for the question.

I think we've been seeing a lot of support since COVID. I hate to be the one who always raises COVID, but that was a real turning point for entrepreneurs and for women, because they were at home with their children. Some of them were not able to go back to work full time and have started.... I will get the data for the previous question.

Women are starting to set up many more small businesses and are becoming entrepreneurs. We know that the region has changed requirements. For example, home-based women entrepreneurs can now sell their products and their food. Programs like that really matter. It sounds like “on the ground” and almost minutiae from a policy perspective, but that's the stuff that really matters.

Changing legislation, changing regulations and changing bylaws from a government perspective really help a lot.

There are some really bright stars. One of my favourites, who you would know as well, is Tina Singh from Bold Helmets. She started her business during COVID. She did a lot of research. She has a medical background. She created something that has really struck a chord across the market and around the world. She is now exporting her helmets for Sikh children to be able to wear. She's now exporting to the U.K., as well as to the U.S. Those are bright sparks. She came through our entrepreneurship centre, which you support very much—thank you.

I think the funding to those types of centres is what's critical. The funding comes from Ontario, but if there's a way for the federal government to be able to support them, like through My Main Street, those programs are extremely helpful.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you.

You mentioned Pink Attitude Evolution. It carried out a study on the changing face of Canada's workforce, focusing on racialized women and South Asian women particularly, because it's from Brampton. What kinds of challenges are they facing?

I also want you to comment on the Rogers Cybersecure Catalyst. It has an entrepreneurship and cybersecurity leadership program for women.

How can the federal government support women to be more independent or to have less fear and be successful in business?

[Clare Barnett]

For women entrepreneurs, it is that first step. That's what we see at the entrepreneurship centre, and that's what we see with the Mastercard program and Rogers Cybersecure Catalyst as well. It's encouraging them to take the first step. That comes from conversations that we have on the ground. I really think that those studies, like the one Pink Attitude Evolution did, provide data on the challenges that we know anecdotally.

I really encourage the committee, if there is time, to look at that study. It really identified some of the obstacles in terms of cultural challenges, perceptions and the ability to grow their careers. It included having role models, having mentorship and having people help them and lift them up, as was done in the example I gave you from MDA.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you.

Are there any other comments on how the federal government can support more women entering STEM or the skilled trades, and support women succeeding in these fields?

[Clare Barnett]

I think we've seen an increase of women in skilled trades. My own department has an advanced manufacturing team, where we're doing a lot of work now on getting women into the skilled trades.

Every business visit we go to, it's about hiring talent. Those companies, our bigger employers, are having challenges hiring people. If we can fill that gap by getting more women into trades and making it more of an acceptable skill.... There are institutions like Sheridan College, which has a Magna skilled trades centre. If you haven't already visited, I very much recommend it. Sheridan College's Brampton campus is putting women through trades. I have been told they are hired even before they graduate. That's how much of a need there is. If there is a way for the federal government to support initiatives like that, I think that's what will help more women get into the trades.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you very much, Sonia.

We'll now move over to Andréanne for six minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My thanks to the three witnesses for joining us today for this very interesting study.

Mrs. Désir, I too was struck by the fact that you had to close your business because of the COVID‑19 pandemic. What I understand from your comments is that the programs lack flexibility and don't take into account all the specific challenges that we, as women, have to overcome.

I was a community worker in the past, and I set up initiatives on women and poverty. That had a big impact on me. We know that women bear a greater mental burden than men, and that food insecurity hits them harder. What's more, they lack the time to manage their various obligations, and they don't naturally turn to networking. These are major factors in the development of their businesses. There's also the whole issue of work-life balance.

I would like to hear you talk a little more about program flexibility. What could have helped you through the crisis?

[Cadleen Désir]

I'm an entrepreneur, and I network a lot. Work-life balance works well, and I'm well supported in that regard. It's really the programs that need to be reviewed. You've put your finger on it.

My business provided services. It was worth $2 million, and its profits were 35%. The company was making a profit and doing well. However, investments in technology and the fact that I was in service delivery were problems. There were a number of programs for industry 4.0, manufacturing and exporting, but they didn't apply to my company. It was a social enterprise, and it didn't fit any boxes. If my business had been considered a non-profit organization in the community sector, I probably could have received some help. However, no program dedicated to incorporated businesses could help Déclic, apart from the emergency assistance program.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

I'd like to come back to the size or type of businesses that are owned by women. I would like to hear your comments on that, Mrs. Désir. I will then turn to other witnesses for their comments.

We know that women-owned businesses are smaller than those owned by men. We also know that, more generally, women in business occupy more precarious positions and work more atypical hours than their male colleagues.

How does all of this affect the entrepreneurial development of women?

[Cadleen Désir]

In my experience with Evol, I was able to see the obstacles our clients had to overcome. Women-owned businesses are often in the service and care sector. It's these women, the ones with smaller businesses, who had to stay home more during the pandemic to take care of their families. As a result, the time they could devote to their businesses was limited. They were operating in sectors that were doubly affected. We also saw a tenfold increase in the impact on the mental health of women entrepreneurs. The number of women who had to stop working and suffered from depression increased.

Certainly, the areas in which these women are pursuing careers were the hardest hit. We also saw it particularly among women entrepreneurs in the Black community.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Mrs. Barnett, you said that women-owned businesses are smaller than those owned by men, and that they're different.

How could the federal government make its programs more accessible for these women?