Evidence of meeting #9 for Status of Women in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was indigenous.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Angela Marie MacDougall  Executive Director, Battered Women's Support Services
Farrah Khan  Executive Director, Possibility Seeds
Kripa Sekhar  Executive Director, South Asian Women's Centre
Maud Pontel  General Coordinator, Alliance des maisons d’hébergement de 2e étape pour femmes et enfants victimes de violence conjugale
Ninu Kang  Executive Director, Ending Violence Association of British Columbia
Jamie Taras  Director of Community Partnerships, BC Lions
Josie Nepinak  Executive Director, Awo Taan Healing Lodge Society
Sabrina Lemeltier  President, Alliance des maisons d’hébergement de 2e étape pour femmes et enfants victimes de violence conjugale

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number nine of the Standing Committee on the Status of Women. I recognize that some people are still taking their seats, but my opening remarks should give them enough time.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted on Tuesday, February 1, the committee will resume its study of intimate partner and domestic violence in Canada.

Given the ongoing pandemic situation and in light of the recommendations from health authorities, as well as the directive of the Board of Internal Economy on October 19, 2021, to remain healthy and safe, all those attending the meeting in person must not have symptoms, are to maintain two-metre physical distancing and must wear a non-medical mask when circulating in the room. It is highly recommended that the mask be worn at all times, including when you are seated. You must maintain proper hand hygiene by using the provided hand sanitizer at the entrance of the room.

For those participating virtually, I would like to outline a few rules to follow. You may speak in the official language of your choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You have the choice, at the bottom of your screen, of floor, English or French audio. If interpretation is lost, please inform me immediately and we will ensure that interpretation is properly restored before resuming the proceedings.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on the video conference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself. To those in the room, your mike will be controlled as normal by the proceedings and verification officer. I would remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair. When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute.

Before we welcome our witnesses, I would like to provide this trigger warning. We will be discussing experiences related to violence and assault. This may be triggering to viewers with similar experiences. If you feel distressed or if you need help, please advise the clerk. Thank you very much.

I want to let you know, because we are starting a few minutes late, we will be proceeding longer to make sure we get as much time with the witnesses as possible. We will be going longer and past our time to achieve this. I will be messing around a bit today so we stay on top.

I would like to introduce our first panel for today. We have, from the Battered Women’s Support Services, Angela Marie MacDougall, who is the executive director. From Possibility Seeds, we have Farrah Khan, who is the executive director. From the South Asian Women's Centre, we have Kripa Sekhar, executive director.

I will be providing you each five minutes to give your opening comments. In the last minute, I will be putting up a little sign that reads “one minute”.

We are going to pass the floor over now to Angela for five minutes.

3:55 p.m.

Angela Marie MacDougall Executive Director, Battered Women's Support Services

Thank you very much, and thank you to the committee for this opportunity to speak with you today.

My name is Angela Marie MacDougall. I am the executive director of Battered Women's Support Services, also known as BWSS, and I am so honoured to be here on behalf of our wonderful team of volunteers, staff, leadership, board of directors and, most definitely, the 18,000 victims and survivors who access our services annually.

We are an organization focused on ending violence that takes action through community-based interventions. As well, we provide direct services for victims and survivors of a range of gender- and relationship-based violence, including intimate partner violence and sexualized violence. Our work extends into education and training as well as a number of different activities that we do on education and prevention. Our efforts also involve legal advocacy, community legal education and law reform wherever the law intersects with gender-based violence. Our research and policy work examine root causes. We're always looking for solutions to address GBV, gender-based violence, and intimate partner violence.

As a regional organization based here in metro Vancouver, British Columbia, also known as the traditional territory of the Squamish, Musqueam and Tsleil-Waututh people, BWSS has had the opportunity to hear from our communities about the similarities and disparities in services and supports all across British Columbia and in Canada.

My remarks today are to examine the deeper dimensions of the impacts of intimate partner violence and gender-based violence. As our founding women recognized, intimate partner violence takes place not only between two individuals in isolation but rather in a social context and within a world view that systemically reinforces the power of some people to oppress others.

We echo the most excellent recommendations that have already been put forward to the committee in previous sessions. We want to underline and emphasize that previous witnesses have recognized the need for a whole-of-government, cross-sectoral and cross-jurisdictional approach to addressing gender-based violence. This approach could be accomplished through a national action plan on violence against women and gender-based violence.

We are one of the over 40 organizations and advocates that contributed to the development of the road map for the national action plan, and as co-chair for the “support for survivors and their families pillar”, I want to really emphasize the important work, the road map, which I understand the committee has received from Women’s Shelters Canada. We want to urge the committee to promote timely action on resourcing the implementation of the national action plan and the over 100 recommendations that have already been set out in the report.

While this is an important framework that gives us an opportunity to really tackle the root causes of gender-based violence and to lessen the systemic inequities that allow gender-based violence to continue unabated, I want to emphasize today some crosscutting recommendations and areas in particular that I think we should focus our work on.

As you probably know, today is the day after March 21, which is the International Day for the Elimination of Racial Discrimination. At BWSS, we serve all survivors, including trans and cis survivors. However, today I wish to make visible the experiences of indigenous, Black, newcomer, immigrant/refugee and racialized survivors so that we understand and are thinking about the ways in which anti-violence service provision, advocacy and government policy can centre the very unique realities for survivors.

Every day during the pandemic we have been witness to the escalating racism that indigenous, Black, Asian, Muslim and other racialized communities, especially racialized women and gender-diverse people, experience. We ask the committee to better understand and raise awareness of the experiences of indigenous, Black, newcomer, immigrant/refugee and racialized survivors in order to enable them to access formal and institutional responses to gender-based violence.

What you might not know is that as an organization that's been delivering services for the last 40 years, we have been very careful to focus on specialized supports. As a result, we've heard from survivors that they understand most profoundly that, for us, it's very important to understand that racism exists and that survivors experience it.

I'd like to urge the committee, through your investigation, through your recommendations and through the actions that come out of this work, to respond to gender-based violence through working to end racism. We know it's challenging, but it is necessary.

Thank you.

4 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Thank you so much, Ms. MacDougall.

I am now going to pass the floor over to Ms. Khan.

Ms. Khan, you have the floor for five minutes, and at one minute I'll start giving you the wave.

4 p.m.

Farrah Khan Executive Director, Possibility Seeds

Thank you so much.

I'd like to begin by acknowledging that this conversation is taking place across traditional territories of many indigenous nations. I am currently on the traditional territory of the Mississaugas of the New Credit, the Anishinabe, the Chippewa, the Haudenosaunee and the Wendat peoples, now home to diverse first nations, Inuit and Métis people.

My name is Farrah Khan. I've spent 25 years raising awareness about the intersections of gender-based violence inequity through education, policy, art creation and advocacy.

I am currently the executive director of Courage to Act, a national project to address and prevent gender-based violence at post-secondary schools through my company, Possibility Seeds. I also run a sexual assault and gender-based violence centre at Ryerson University.

I am really grateful to speak to this committee, because gender-based violence, specifically domestic violence, intimate partner violence, has been on my mind as I've witnessed time and time again survivors struggling under the pandemic. This is the second pandemic that we're living in.

We know that domestic violence, intimate partner violence, is rooted in gender inequality, power and privilege. It's a manifestation of patriarchal violence, and it intensely impacts the communities we live in.

One thing that isn't talked about enough is the fact that it affects young people in disproportionate ways, more than any other age cohort. What we know is that three in 10, or 29% of women between the ages of 15 to 24 years of age, have reported being subjected to intimate partner violence in the past 12 months. The rates are even higher for people within that age group who are part of Black, indigenous, racialized communities, women with disabilities and 2SLGBTQ people.

When we think about who is a domestic violence or intimate partner violence survivor, we oftentimes do not think of that 15- to 24-year-old age group, but we are missing out when we don't.

It's really important to note, too, that these conversations are binary and that trans qbe gender non-binary people experience a high rate of IPV and physical, sexual and psychological harm, at 1.7 times higher than cisgender people.

I agree with Angela, my colleague, who says that we need the national action plan to happen. We need it well resourced, and we need to move quickly, because this is a pandemic in and of itself. We need to act on the recommendations of the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls and the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada.

We need to centre the voice of survivors and the work of grassroots movements and remember that we leave no one behind, because oftentimes when we think about who is a survivor, we focus on the needs of white cis women, and we know that's not true because across the country so many women, girls, men and boys are experiencing this type of violence. We can't leave behind trans abd gebder non-binary people or two-spirit folks, because no one deserves this.

We have to challenge the narrow definitions of what domestic violence is to ensure that no survivor who is experiencing something like forced marriage, stalking, harassment online or intimate images being shared is shut out of accessing services and feels like they cannot reach out for support.

We need disaggregated data that talks about race, gender and sexuality so we understand the scope and ways in which it impacts diverse communities.

I don't know about you, but I want action about housing. We have a huge unaffordable housing issue in Canada, and it breaks my heart when survivors say they cannot leave this violence; they have to live in it because there is nowhere for them to go.

We also have to address food insecurity when we know that it disproportionately affects women and that right now we are in a food crisis. People, again, will stay with an abuser because they can't afford to leave.

We also have to look at income security supports and social protection so that no one has to think, “If I have to pay my rent and pay my bills, there is no way I can leave this abusive situation.” We keep women, girls and people inside abusive relationships by not addressing income security.

We have to continue affordable child care, because people are able to afford to pay for their children to be in child care now so that they can get out of abusive relationships and stay out.

We need to provide grants, not loans, to post-secondary students, to ensure that they are able to go to school and not feel that they're reliant on abusive family members, community members or partners to address the needs they have for education.

I would also state, implement Keira's law. That child should never have been killed, and a private member's bill that would expand judicial education to do good seminars on intimate partner violence and coercive control needs to go forward.

I say, too, that the last piece that we need to address is the criminalization of intimate partner violence survivors. Just this past month, Tanner Brass was found dead hours after police arrested his mother, Kyla Frenchman, when she argued with them about her son's safety. The boy's father, Kaij Brass, was charged with second-degree murder.

The police could have prevented this, but instead they criminalized an indigenous mother, and her son was killed as a result. We need to do better. We need to stop criminalizing survivors, especially Black and indigenous survivors.

We also need the government to invest in nonpunitive approaches and divest from carceral approaches for addressing domestic violence. We can no longer look at the approaches that we have been taking, because they're not working. We need to change this.

Lastly, we need to invest in young people, because young people experience high rates of violence and they're not protected right now.

Thank you so much.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Thank you very much.

Between speakers, we just had a little note here.

Ms. MacDougall, there's a bit of an issue with your blurred background. I guess it's causing a bit of a connectivity issue, so while Ms. Sekhar is speaking, perhaps you can work on that.

During this time, I'd like to switch the floor over to the South Asian Women's Centre. Kripa, the floor is yours.

4:10 p.m.

Kripa Sekhar Executive Director, South Asian Women's Centre

Thank you so much for giving me this opportunity to speak. I appreciate the time you've given me. Thank you so much, each and every one of you from the standing committee, for listening and hearing the voices of the South Asian women I have been trying to represent through many years of work. This is 40 years of service within the South Asian community.

I'm not going to repeat a lot of what has already been said, because so much has been statistically informed and I do not wish to waste my time further on that. Rather, I'll focus on what we have found at the South Asian Women's Centre.

We were founded in 1982, and we have served over 900 women in abusive situations in the past three years. When I say abusive situations, I mean they have come; they have reported, and many of them don't even get out of that situation.

When we talk about intimate family violence or intimate partner violence, we understand that within the South Asian community, it reflects an issue between two spouses. Very often, women in the South Asian community will say that's what they were destined for. There's almost a fatalistic unwillingness to accept this issue or to even try to complain about it.

I have presented my paper, so I'm going to focus more on the impact of this pandemic and what we saw coming out of it.

SAWC would like to focus on the condition of South Asian women during COVID-19. We feel that the issue of recovery cannot be trivialized, as it will take years for women to get over the traumatic consequences of heightened abuse because of isolation and so many other factors. It's across all ages. The barriers that South Asian women across all ages and genders face include racism, language, death, grief, access to housing, health, transportation, income security, child care, immigration status, etc.

We always talk about this, but COVID-19 magnified these issues. This was apparent based on the numbers of women who sought help during this time. Our offices were open all through COVID, because women from the South Asian community have very unique needs. Many of them do not have access to computers and do not know how to read and write English. Therefore, we needed to make sure there was an ability to communicate with them, which is why we stayed open. We also took care of all the public health care needs, including hosting vaccination clinics.

Between April 2020 and December 2021, SAWC's seven counsellors received over 4,000 calls, and approximately 900 of them were related to abuse.

The focus of this brief is to look at the intersectionality between gender, poverty, mental health, trauma and immigration status. SAWC has been struggling with questions related to these issues coming out of COVID.

We know of at least 10 to 15 cases of women where spouses lost their employment and returned to their home country because they didn't know what else to do. Many of them were employed as taxi drivers, restaurant workers or even small business owners. Most of them lost everything during COVID. Men decided to return to their home countries, essentially deserting their spouses and children.

Many women are not fluent in English and have never had a job. SAWC spent hours filling out application forms to get women some financial help. SAWC's food bank saw an increase in clients, but the South Asian community, as well as the Daily Bread Food Bank, helped us to fulfill many needs. A couple of men who went back home even remarried, completely abandoning the women to fend for themselves, along with dependent children.

There is an intergenerational impact to this. Most of the women do not know how to use a computer and have no access to one, so the issue of online schooling was really tough for them.

Isolation did not allow for any kind of personal support system. SAWC received calls from the same women four to five times a day because of desperation.

SAWC also struggled with international students.

There are three main recommendations I want to make. One is for adequate and core funding to organizations that is more permanent—not like a contract agreement—and will be more core for several years so that we can actually look at the needs of BIPOC women to enable them to live free from abuse, have stable financial security and ensure proper housing, child care and employment.

The second is for senior BIPOC women to have access to long-term care support, adequate income support and housing support.

The third is for women who have been deserted by Canadian men in their home countries to be granted some temporary permanent residency status to enable them to seek justice.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Thank you so much. I really appreciate that.

We're now going to start going on our rounds. I will be interjecting at your time because the time is so tight today.

I'm going to pass the floor over to Shelby.

Shelby, you have the first round of questions, for six minutes.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Shelby Kramp-Neuman Conservative Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON

Thank you.

First I'd like to acknowledge my sincere thanks to all of you for taking the time to speak to us and enlighten us with your backgrounds and on what you're doing to help.

Perhaps I'll start with a first question for Farrah from Possibility Seeds.

Is there a way you can promote or are you already promoting healthy relationships among young people? So much of this is rooted in how we begin.

4:15 p.m.

Executive Director, Possibility Seeds

Farrah Khan

I love that question.

We know that 71% of university and college students have said they have experienced or witnessed gender-based violence and specifically sexual violence and intimate partner violence, which is devastating.

That says we're making a huge mistake when they're growing up in our high schools and our grade schools. We know there's not comprehensive sexual health education, which includes relationship education. People get really stuck on the sex part of it and forget that most of it is about relationships, consent, body autonomy, respecting your partner and caring for your partner.

This past week there was a TikTok trend that teenagers were making that had young men saying the ways they would kill their partners on dates. It was a trend that went viral. It was depressing to watch and heartbreaking.

When we don't have comprehensive sexual health education that includes healthy relationships—which we don't; it stops after grade 9 and you usually have to opt into it—we create this problem ourselves. We create violence that continues when we don't have real education for children and youth.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Shelby Kramp-Neuman Conservative Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON

Thank you.

Is there a way our teenagers are being notified? How are they aware? Is it on all the different social media trends? Is it just TikTok, Instagram or what have you?

Is there an informative, educational way to make sure that these young teenagers are aware of exactly what a healthy relationship means? It's interpreted very differently for different people.

4:15 p.m.

Executive Director, Possibility Seeds

Farrah Khan

Absolutely.

We know that if we don't have that education, the violence continues. We need to have comprehensive education in all grade schools, from K to 12. It shouldn't be a partisan issue.

Oftentimes this conversation becomes partisan, with certain parties and everybody saying that we have to protect the kids. You're not protecting children by not giving them comprehensive education in the schools. That's up to school boards; that's up to provinces, and it's also up to the federal government and about provincial transfers to get that education in there.

It shouldn't be an “if”. It's a “when”, because we prevent it by having real education that's comprehensive and doesn't shy away from the conversation.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Shelby Kramp-Neuman Conservative Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON

Fantastic.

My next question is for Angela Marie MacDougall. I'll start by suggesting that I really think it's important that, in collaboration with indigenous groups, we have an action plan that addresses violence against indigenous women and girls, and all BIPOC.

Clearly this was an issue before the pandemic. It's not new. Is there a new way to deliver the programs post pandemic? How has the pandemic itself impacted that?

4:20 p.m.

Executive Director, Battered Women's Support Services

Angela Marie MacDougall

We have seen an erosion of the status of women from an intersectional point of view during COVID-19. We've seen an escalation in violence in a number of ways. That is borne out in terms of the ongoing and persistent numbers of indigenous women and girls who have gone missing, and also those who have been killed during the last two years.

As you mentioned, this is not a new problem. This is not something that hasn't already been identified quite comprehensively through the national action plan on missing and murdered indigenous women and girls. We as an organization were a party with standing during the inquiry process, and what is wonderful about that plan is that it is one of the most comprehensive documents that we have, I dare say, that looks at the root causes of violence across a number of different aspects, and also at solutions.

We have in front of us a platform, a remedy, a way to take action, and I think there are some important tweaks that can be made. One thing that's profoundly and deeply important right now, and it's something we're working on way out here in the west, in British Columbia, is the “by and for” approach to service delivery. We are resourcing, ensuring that there are the capacity and resources for indigenous-led, indigenous women-led organizations, in order to develop, design and deliver services that make sense for the communities in all of the complexity—because this is at the heart.

If we really understand that the making of Canada as a nation has bathed in a very specific kind of subjugation that is unique and horrifying in terms of the way that it's been targeted against indigenous women and girls, in order for us to remedy that, we must prioritize indigenous women-led solutions all across these lands. That includes of course Inuit and Métis, and first nations on reserve but also in urban settings, because as we know it's a very complicated landscape in which the violence occurs.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Perfect. Thank you very much.

Unfortunately I'm going to have to cut some people off today. I will be interrupting, as I said, so please don't take anything personally here. I'm doing my best on that.

I'm now going to move it over to Sonia Sidhu.

Sonia, you have six minutes.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Sonia Sidhu Liberal Brampton South, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all of the witnesses for being here with us. My first question is for Ms. Khan.

You said that young people are not protected. Can you tell us about some of the best practices for education and the prevention programs addressing intimate partner or domestic violence?

4:20 p.m.

Executive Director, Possibility Seeds

Farrah Khan

Children are protected in multiple ways. When we don't provide education around domestic violence and intimate partner violence from a young age, children who witness that harm don't know that they're not alone. They may internalize and think it's their fault, that it's something that just happens to their family.

Instead, we need to open that door, because there's a window there too, and make sure they can hear that they're not alone. Best practices, again, are comprehensive conversations about it that don't shy away from talking about body parts, so children who are sexually abused or have experienced family violence in the home know what body parts are being touched so that they can tell someone. I was one of those children, and I wish somebody had given me real education around it.

Another thing that we really need to know for the best practices is for teachers to be educated about it too. Teachers need to know what to do with disclosures, and not only to send children away, because that's not what they need; they need help there in the school. They need to know what that looks like. We've seen protests across this country by students in the past six months who have said, “We're not getting the education we need about healthy relationships. Fix it.” We've seen this from B.C. to P.E.I. We need to listen to those children and youth and know that they need to be protected and cared for. Education that is comprehensive, not abstinence-based, is how to do it.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Sonia Sidhu Liberal Brampton South, ON

To follow up, at what age should young people start learning about safe and healthy relationships? How should a violence prevention initiative be adapted?

You also talked about surveyed data. How can we collect that, and in what way?

4:25 p.m.

Executive Director, Possibility Seeds

Farrah Khan

I love all these questions.

On the first one, we need to ensure that they're learning from the age of zero. I have a two-year-old, and he knew about body autonomy pretty quickly. I need to affirm his right to choose that his body is his body, and that no one should touch him without consent. That starts at a young age. That doesn't stop. We can't stop children from learning, because they're going to learn in other ways. We need to give them comprehensive, good education on this.

In terms of intimate partner violence, it's making sure too that they're learning about what relationships could look like, not only those that they've seen at home, which sometimes are abusive and harmful. Just as Kripa said, we're talking about intimate partner violence, but it's also about family members, siblings, and how we treat each other with respect and care. I think it can start at a very early age, because violence starts at a very early age. If we don't give them an alternative, then all we're doing is saying, “Do you know what? You're on your own.” I never want to say that to a child, because children should be seen, heard and believed. If they don't have the right information, no one can hear them.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Sonia Sidhu Liberal Brampton South, ON

Thank you. My next question is for Kripa Sekhar.

We heard about financial abuse. You said that some women cannot use computers because they face language barriers. I know there are many barriers.

Can you speak to the challenges immigrant women may face when they are trying to leave abusive relationships? What sorts of tactics might their abuser use to prevent them from fleeing or seeking help? What can government do to protect them?

4:25 p.m.

Executive Director, South Asian Women's Centre

Kripa Sekhar

Farrah alluded to some of the issues, but what I want to say, as an immigrant woman and a racialized South Asian woman.... I don't know. In our home, this was something that wasn't even discussed. There was no talk about gender identity. You were raised to listen. You were not allowed to talk about these things. I see that hasn't changed within families who immigrate to this country, regardless of where they come from within the South Asian context. It's still a very silent issue.

I remember, very unfortunately, the time a few years ago when there was an educational piece that was introduced in schools. There were a lot of protests and objections. We had workshops for women who come here, to help them to understand that this was good for their children, and particularly good for young girls, because they had no idea of what we had seen and the level of incest within this community, particularly in the joint family structure.

While education will play a very big part, it is about access to this education, and how best children will be able to get that sense of “Where do I go? How do I understand this? Where can I find these resources?”, when parents are limiting that access. There is still that issue, and we need to find other ways of reaching out to immigrant communities.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Thank you very much—

4:25 p.m.

Executive Director, South Asian Women's Centre

Kripa Sekhar

Farrah—

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

I'm sorry. We have to move on to the next person.

I'm going to now move it over to Andréanne Larouche. You have six minutes.

4:30 p.m.

Bloc

Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the three witnesses, Ms. MacDougall, Ms. Khan and Ms. Sekhar, for their remarks today. They have given us insight into domestic violence, both violence against women and violence against gender diverse individuals.

My first question is for Ms. Khan, but I'd be happy to hear from the other two witnesses as well, should they wish to comment.

Ms. Khan, in 2017, the federal government announced Canada's strategy to prevent and address gender-based violence. Among other things, the strategy was designed to fill significant “gaps in supports for diverse populations, including: women and girls; Indigenous women and girls; LGBTQ2…and gender diverse individuals”.

In terms of the supports provided by organizations who serve these women, have the gaps been filled or closed at all? Has the situation improved since then? Have the government's actions been consistent with the objectives set out in the 2017 strategy?

Can you tell us where things stand? More studies have just been announced, and they are expected to go on for years.

4:30 p.m.

Executive Director, South Asian Women's Centre

Kripa Sekhar

Was that question for me? I couldn't get the interpretation.