Status of Women Committee on March 22nd, 2022

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

It sure is, but thank you so much. I should have given you a time out maybe five yards back, something important here. Anyway, thank you so much.

We're now going to come back to speak to the Awo Taan Healing Lodge Society, with Josie.

Josie, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Josie Nepinak, Executive Director, Awo Taan Healing Lodge Society]

Good afternoon. I'm Josie Nepinak, executive director for the Awo Taan Healing Lodge. I come to you this afternoon from beautiful Moh'kinsstis in the Treaty 7 territory, also known as Calgary, Alberta.

I'd like to tell you a bit about the Awo Taan Healing Lodge. For 32 years we have provided services to indigenous women and their families, as well as to immigrant women and settled Canadians. We've been doing this business for more than 30 years.

However, our framework is quite unique and different, I would say, from mainstream emergency women's shelters. We centre the elders' knowledge and wisdom within our practice framework, and that is around the traditional teachings of the diverse indigenous people who live in Calgary as well as access to the medicines that are part of who we are as spirit. Also, we take multi-generational families into the emergency shelter; we have grandmothers with their grandchildren, grandmothers, daughters, grandchildren and aunties. We bring in the whole family, whereas other mainstream shelters don't have that practice. However, it is indicative of the family unit within our indigenous communities.

A program that we're currently working on is called reconciliation and healing from trauma and violence, an indigenous healing and wellness framework as a promising practice for indigenous survivors and their families, and this program is now in its third year based on an evaluation of the women who come into the emergency shelter. Through surveys, storytelling and various activities, we talk to them about what they need in terms of support and services, and one of the biggest things they say is that sense of community and the building of community. When they come into a service area, they would like to see people who look like them—they want to see the dark hair, the brown eyes—they want people with a common experience, because they're often feeling that they have been judged over and over multiple times because of who they are; they're feeling not welcome or that perhaps this is not the right place for them; they're wondering if they'll get what they need here.

What we do with that is we employ an indigenous framework and storytelling lens to the research that we do. We hope that this work that we're currently conducting will become a blueprint model for other emergency shelters, not necessarily specific to but for those who serve indigenous women across the country.

The other project that we are just launching at this moment is what we call reclaiming power and place, which is co-developing distinctions-based principles of engagement with families of missing and murdered indigenous women and girls. We're doing this in Calgary with the Calgary Police Service, with whom we've had conversations about coming together and talking about when there is a missing or murdered loved one, how do we work with families in such a way that families are feeling respected, are feeling listened to, and so that there is integrity in the investigation?

I will tell you, there are at least seven families in Calgary that are still waiting for answers from the police regarding the violent death of their loved one. In this project over the next year we will have engagement sessions with Calgary Police Service, indigenous community elders, survivors and allies to talk about what this communication protocol might look like. We understand that there are processes that the police service have in terms of their investigation, but how do we as families of MMIW wish to proceed with those conversations, and what is it that we need? Quite often, for families, as you're well aware from the national inquiry as well as the provincial recommendations we just did, the communication and the relationship with the police is the most stressful and seen as the most racist experience that indigenous families have with the process.

We hope to develop a culturally safe engagement strategy and protocols with families of MMIW. We hope to co-develop an engagement and evaluation tool with them. At the end of the day, we want protocols to have that respectful interaction.

The other thing I want to say, because I know that my time is quickly running out, is that there are often nice words attached to the experiences of indigenous women, such as gender-based violence. In my language, which is Anishinabe, I don't know that there is such a word as “gender”. I think about family violence and where family violence comes from. In an indigenous community—you've heard this—it comes from genocide, paternalistic policies that exist around indigenous women and families, the destruction of families, and racism. These together—

I'm so sorry.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

It's okay. We have gone way over time on yours, to be honest.

[Josie Nepinak]

I'm so sorry.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Oh no, you have such important information. I just want to allow everybody...but we are getting into such critical time right now, and I'm sorry. We will be going only to 5:45, and then we have committee business after that.

It's going to be six-minute rounds to start, and then we'll decide at the 24-minute mark how we'll proceed from there. I'm going to pass the floor over to Dominique.

You have six minutes.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for being with us this afternoon.

My first questions are for the representatives of the Alliance des maisons d'hébergement de 2e étape pour femmes et enfants victimes de violence conjugale.

Ms. Pontel, thank you for your opening statement. My sense is that we can learn a bit more about the solutions available.

You talked about what happened to Ms. Huard‑Boudreault, which is not only appalling, but also disturbing, to be quite honest. It's clear that the system failed and that mistakes were made.

What is your take-away from the case? Should we put more focus on training police officers?

What more should we be doing to help women who are put in terrible situations—as Ms. Huard‑Boudreault was—having to retrieve their belongings alone? Where did the failure occur? What can we do better in these types of situations?

[Maud Pontel]

Thank you for the question.

I wanted to add that you missed a small part of my presentation. It was about improving and fixing the safety net, putting in place safeguards for victims and their children.

To answer your question, I would say a number of solutions are available. I will let my colleague Sabrina Lemeltier tell you about some of them.

[Sabrina Lemeltier, President, Alliance des maisons d’hébergement de 2e étape pour femmes et enfants victimes de violence conjugale]

In Quebec, just before the pandemic, a panel of experts on support for victims of sexual assault and domestic violence released a report about rebuilding trust. In it, the panel made 190 bold recommendations to finally build the safety net we talked about. I'll run through a few of them.

The panel recommends creating a special court based on the principle of vertical prosecution to support victims in domestic and sexual violence cases. It recommends the wearing of electronic bracelets to—finally—prevent ex‑spouses who are released from prison and continue to harass their victims from committing murders, homicides and infanticides. Bear in mind that children are also killed because of domestic violence. The panel talks about a continuum of support services. It is essential to understand that victims need support every step of the way.

Coming back to your first question, about Ms. Huard-Boudreault—whom I'll call Daphné—I would say this. Daphné was a young woman of 18, and in her case, police officer training was terribly inadequate. Officers are supposed to follow a protocol to escort victims of domestic violence when going to the home to retrieve their belongings. The police let her go to the home on her own, giving her ex‑partner enough time to kill her before they arrived a few minutes later.

The issues are incredibly complex, so we would need to spend a few hours with you to go through them all.

Another important element is domestic violence as grounds for deciding whether the security or development of the child is in danger. I'll let Ms. Pontel tell you about that.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Please keep it brief, Ms. Pontel.

[Maud Pontel]

I will.

Very recently, the provincial government was considering reforms to the Youth Protection Act, and we urged the government to recognize domestic violence in its own right in the act.

Recognizing domestic violence in its own right under the act would have a huge impact in terms of understanding the problem around domestic violence, including after a separation. Many of the people who work in youth protection see domestic violence situations as major separation disputes or parental alienation, when the problem is really domestic violence and post-separation domestic violence.

We mentioned the training of front-line workers and police officers, but those who work in the youth protection system need training as well. That training will contribute to a better overall understanding, so the various actors can work together. In fact, Quebec has created rapid intervention units, bringing together several partners to respond to highly dangerous situations within 24 to 48 hours.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you.

I don't have a lot of time, so I'm going to move on to another topic, football.

Mr. Taras, has your experience been replicated elsewhere that you know of?

[Jamie Taras]

Are you asking whether we have taken it outside of the province of British Columbia?

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

I'd actually like to know whether other sports teams, other football teams, have followed your lead.

Can your initiative be adopted in other settings?

[Jamie Taras]

Yes, we have had the opportunity to train other teams in the CFL to adopt a similar program. We've also worked with other sports organizations, and anyone who really wanted to get involved, including amateur sports. We have also tried to pass on the knowledge, the model, and the methodology to other sports teams.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Awesome, thank you very much. Jamie, you're the one I seem to be cutting off a lot today, so sorry about that.

I'm now going to move to Jenna, for six minutes.

[Jenna Sudds, Liberal, Kanata—Carleton, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and thank you to all the witnesses who have joined us today. There is some really inspiring work that you're undertaking.

I want to go back to Mr. Taras. What strikes me is the fact that this program, if I heard correctly, has been operating since 2011, so I'd like to give you a brief moment to speak to the success or experience, over those 11 years, that demonstrates the success of the program.

[Jamie Taras]

Success has been the appetite of the students. There's a real willingness on the part of the students in the schools to hear this information about domestic violence, partner violence, gender-based violence, and then to get involved as part of the solution.

I believe there is a lot of hope there. That's why we wanted to get involved with that age group, because it's difficult sometimes to change the mental models and biases of older people. For the young, we thought it would be a great place to start, and that was where we felt our voice could best be heard.

[Jenna Sudds, Liberal, Kanata—Carleton, ON]

Terrific. Thank you so much.

Ms. Kang, we heard a lot today about the impact of speaking and engaging with children at a young age about gender-based violence and intimate partner violence. In your experience, how has it been received when you're starting those discussions with the young and educating youth, as it were, at a young age?

[Ninu Kang]

You asked Jamie earlier about the success of this program. It's the model that we have developed. This model is a true partnership between the BC Lions and a women-serving, women-centred organization. It's about working with men who are really committed to standing next to us, as women.

When I think about that program and the new players.... We train them. Jamie and I just finished a training with a new cohort of BC Lions. They're now trained to go into the schools. We feel that the young people are looking up to these sports icons. We have an anti-violence worker there with them. If any disclosures come up, we have supports in place. In the back end, we also really work closely with the school and the school counsellors to ensure that when we're in and out of there in that way, there's capacity within those schools to continue to support the young people.

When I think about engaging with young people, the other very significant part of this program is that we do not demonize boys and men. Often, when we look at the gender-based violence issue, it has kind of put women and men or girls and boys on the opposite sides of the spectrum. Because of the fact that we've needed to address this very challenging issue, we've had to really centre on survivors. This is an opportunity to prevent us from having to intervene when violence actually happens.

These are young boys who see men standing and talking about gender-based violence. They're looking up to them. They're creating vocabulary. They're creating simple tools for how to intervene without it being something super-comprehensive.

We want this to become part of their wiring so they know that when they see something, they're going to step in and feel empowered to do something. We leave them with very simple tools in this program.

[Jenna Sudds, Liberal, Kanata—Carleton, ON]

That's amazing. Thank you so much.

The next question is for Ms. Nepinak.

In your testimony you spoke about the importance of building community. It really gave me a sense of how important the work you're doing is for ensuring culturally appropriate supports. I'm wondering if you can speak to us a bit about the factors that are influencing the healing journey of the women you're serving.

[Josie Nepinak]

Thank you.

We have to remember that the demographics of indigenous women coming into large urban centres have changed, particularly over the past decade. Indigenous women are coming from across the country to live in urban centres like Calgary. They often find themselves quite isolated. There is a need to connect with a cultural community. There's a need to connect to people who look like them, speak the same language and share in the ceremony, the food and the family kinships they have within their communities. There is a need for that connection and to build community and cultural events around those factors while feeling like you belong. It's belonging without judgment and without racism with individuals who have a shared history and who accept you as you are with that shared history.

This is what indigenous women are telling us. Whether it's a group of women coming together to sing drum songs or do some beadwork, or whether it's a collective kitchen and we decide we're going to make bannock tacos for supper, that is building that community. It's about that connection.

The humour is something else. Laughing with your friends is important.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

That's perfect. Thank you so much.

We're now going to pass the floor over to Andréanne for six minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses, Ms. Lemeltier, Ms. Pontel, Ms. Nepinak, Ms. Kang and Mr. Taras, for taking the time to speak with us today. We are gaining a lot of insight into an important problem.

My first question is for Ms. Lemeltier, of the Alliance des maisons d'hébergement de 2e étape pour femmes et enfants victimes de violence conjugale.

Ms. Lemeltier, you talked about an important tool in addressing domestic violence, the electronic bracelet. You mention it in your brief to the Quebec National Assembly's Committee on Institutions, as part of its examination of Bill 24.

More or less, this is what you say in your brief:

[A] number of recent government initiatives have clearly established the need to apply a specific lens when family dynamics involve domestic violence, in which one spouse (usually the father) exerts coercive control over the other spouse (the mother) and by extension the children. Coercive control involves a dynamic of control and domination within a relationship between intimate partners where the abuser increases the number of attacks to gain total control over the victim, completely inhibiting the victim's freedom to be and act as they wish.

Can you elaborate on that statement, Ms. Lemeltier?

[Sabrina Lemeltier]

Thank you for the question.

Coercive control is a very important topic that we wanted to address.

I'll give you a very real example.

I am also the director of a shelter that offers first and second stage emergency housing. This weekend, a woman housed in our first stage shelter went to a garage to have her tires changed, and the mechanic discovered a GPS tracker. Her ex‑spouse, from whom she had recently separated, put the tracker on to follow her every move. Imagine the panic this discovery caused. This woman, who was in a shelter with a confidential address, had her safety jeopardized.

With regard to coercive control, it is important to realize that domestic violence can be physical or sexual, but it can also take other forms, which are much more difficult to detect. It is necessary to offer training to all the stakeholders in the field so they can understand that, even if the woman does not have a black eye, she is still a victim of domestic violence.

Women often go to second-stage housing a few months after a separation, and one might think that domestic violence stops at that point. Instead, it takes another form, called post-separation spousal abuse. This violence can manifest in many ways, including harassment on social networks, maintaining financial control, retaining a woman's immigration documents or denying supervised right of access, which impacts children's safety. Control continues and increases over time. The time after a separation is the most dangerous for women and, I repeat, for children.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Yes, that is indeed the case.

We know that with regard to sexual violence, power and control, it is important to legislate regarding coercive control. It is crucial to do this to get to the root of the problem and try to address it upstream.

According to representatives of the Regroupement des maisons pour femmes victimes de violence conjugale who appeared before the committee, the criminalization of coercive control may not be the solution that will solve everything. It must include training for those involved in the justice system and public prevention.

What do you think? Is it still a potential solution that should be considered, if only as a complement to other preventive solutions, such as the tracking bracelet, to increase women's sense of safety?