Status of Women Committee on Feb. 13th, 2024

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much, Chair.

My first question is for Penny Wise.

You spoke about intersectionalities and barriers. In my former life, for three minutes I was a vice-principal in a first nation school. One of the reasons we couldn't teach the science curriculum was that we didn't have a science lab. For example, the kids in the school couldn't take chemistry because we didn't have proper safety equipment to teach chemistry.

In your research, when you're talking about intersectionalities, did you find that particularly in remote or first nations communities one of the barriers was equal access to education in terms of being able to join STEM fields?

[Penny Wise]

I think that making sure there is funding and access is relevant across a number of racialized communities and indigenous communities.

Accessibility in general is an issue for engaging people, students and individuals in STEM across Canada, whether it's accessibility for people with disabilities, like actually being able to get into the lab, or people being able to be taught in a way that is relevant and meaningful to them.

I guess the short answer to your question is “yes”. There is definitely a lack of funding and a lack of accessibility. That is one of the pieces we look at as a recommendation: How do we create accessibility to STEM education and give students the opportunity to engage with science, chemistry and all of those elements that you spoke about?

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

As a side note, it was hard to promote a love of reading, because we had no library books—talk about educational inequality in this country.

[Penny Wise]

That's heartbreaking.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

My next question is for Madam Jules Gorham.

You spoke about your concerns with new legislation that impacts natural medicines. What were some of the reasons given for the need to put in the legislation?

[Jules Gorham]

I'm sorry, but I'm still in shock about the library.

It's all under the self-care framework.

Many years ago it was decided that OTCs, over-the-counter medications—our Tylenols, our allergy medications, etc.—along with natural health products and cosmetics, would go under a self-care framework, because they are essentially low-risk products. It was taking them away from drugs and moving them under their own framework. HESA played a big role in this, actually.

That framework, many years later, is still incomplete. The building out of it is still incomplete. There are still many operational problems in the framework.

The cost recovery portion of it was rushed through. It was scheduled to come in later down the pipeline. We were expecting a lot of stakeholder consultation, engagement and costing exercises to be done, but it was rushed through this summer with less than 24 hours' notice for stakeholders, and we're now sitting with a cost recovery proposal that was in the Gazette, part I. Hopefully we can push it off, but it was set to be enforced as of April 1, 2025.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

What you're saying is that there's no coverage for natural medicines. Is that what the big issue is?

[Jules Gorham]

What we're saying is that they're changing the regulations on natural health products without taking into consideration the impact to Canadians, the impact to businesses and the entire supply chain.

If we talk about women in STEM, the entire supply chain is women in STEM—women who have roles to bring products to market that allow women to care for their families. That's all in jeopardy right now in Canada, because of these regulations being pushed through.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

That's great. Thank you.

My next question is for Penny Wise.

You indicated that many women in STEM experience a hostile environment. Can you expand on that?

[Penny Wise]

Unfortunately, I can't provide you with a lot more detail. It was very specific—whether you encountered a hostile work environment, whether you felt not included—but I don't have specifics about what they mean by “hostile work environment”.

Certainly in any sort of company where fewer than a quarter of the women who are working inside a lab or inside a STEM occupation are in an environment where they are not necessarily brought in or feel part of the organization, or they are not supported or treated appropriately, I can see how, at the very least, they would feel not included, but to understand the hostile working environment, we would need to dig into it further.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

You spoke about STEM building sustainable economies. You also spoke about the need for diverse perspectives.

How does the lack of representation of women in STEM impact us in terms of coming up with innovative solutions that will allow us to move forward?

[Penny Wise]

When we think about a problem and we have a room full of people who are all from the same group, have the same ways of thinking, have the same blinders or views to working on a problem, we're going to solve the problem in a very specific way.

When you look outside that group, you have people, women, with different opinions, with different life experiences, with different educations, with different points of view, with different ways of thinking through or solving problems. When you start to bring in people who have been exposed to some of these other ideas, these other opinions, whether it's indigenous people on the land or our connection to the land, or different views or different cultures, different ways of thinking about things, different medicines, all of those bring different ideas that make people think more broadly, that make people think widely. That's how we get to a better solution.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much.

On behalf of the committee, I would really like to thank Jules, Penny and Ruth for coming to our committee and for providing information. Because I know our time was so short today, if you have additional information or information on questions that you thought you might be asked but that weren't asked, please send that information to us.

I also note that I have some recommendations here that were put in by Penny Wise. I'll ask that those speaking notes be passed around, because Penny provided recommendations in them.

Go ahead, Marc.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Madam Chair, since we didn't have a lot of time, if the witnesses want to write anything in to the committee—

[A voice]

She just said that.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

I mean both of them, not just Penny.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Yes, absolutely—

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

I thought it was just Penny.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

It was everybody. I mentioned Penny because there are recommendations specifically in this paper and I want to make sure they get out.

If there are no other questions or comments, I will see you Thursday at 3:30.

The meeting is adjourned.