Evidence of meeting #97 for Status of Women in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was support.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Business Owner, As an Individual
I'm waiting for the translation, but Fae, you speak French, so you can go.
Executive Director, Wisdom2Action
Thank you for the question.
I will answer in English. I understood your question, but I don’t have all the right words to give you an answer in French.
You know, when I look to the federal government's 2SLGBTQ action plan, I see that it doesn't have significant carve-outs when it comes to supporting queer and trans business owners or entrepreneurs.
I think there have been a lot of incredible investments. We were very thankful to receive some support from the federal government during the COVID pandemic to help us keep our doors open and employ the folks we love to employ. However, I think the struggle is that the narrative is one of fear and anxiety, and a lot of folks don't have the skills, or access to the opportunities to build the skills, to come out into entrepreneurship and thrive as small business owners.
Business Owner, As an Individual
Can I ask that you repeat the question? I didn't quite get the translation.
Conservative
Dominique Vien Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
Actually, the question is very simple.
Ms. Pogoson Acker, in your opinion, what pushes women to get into business now, since the context makes it extremely complicated for them?
According to some data, women-owned businesses close their doors much more quickly and their survival rate is much lower than businesses owned by men. You talked about mental health problems, and you said that government policy was completely disconnected from reality.
Given all that, what could ever push women to get into business now?
Business Owner, As an Individual
Well, I can speak from my perspective.
I think what pushed me to get into entrepreneurship was independence and a yearning for independence. I knew I wanted to be a wife. I knew I wanted to be a mom. I knew I wanted to raise my kids and not necessarily have them be raised by anyone else in exchange for—
Conservative
Business Owner, As an Individual
Yes, I wanted to be a superwoman, and I still try to strive towards that. I think most women want that independence, and it's very difficult to pursue the independence when you are on someone else's time clock. I think women are still being inspired to pursue entrepreneurship because of the yearning for independence.
Again, women are also very smart. We have a lot to contribute, and sometimes.... In my case, for instance, when I was in my job, I didn't feel like my skills and expertise were being maximized. I felt like I could do more. I felt like I could give more, and if I wasn't able to do it in the workplace, I didn't have time to do it in the community. That is why I went into entrepreneurship. I knew that I could manage my own time and not only give back to my community but also contribute economically in the form of a business. From my perspective, absolutely, independence....
As I said, I think the government can really meet entrepreneurs at their juncture of challenge. I wanted to become an entrepreneur because I wanted to manage my time and be around my children. I came to this country in 2001. When I came in 2001, we were having conversations about child care. Here we are 24 years later, if my math is right, and we're having the same conversations.
Conservative
Business Owner, As an Individual
How haven't we moved forward on this after 24 years? It is things of this nature.... I do have some stories to share, and I will try to share them during the other lines of questioning.
That would be my response.
Conservative
Dominique Vien Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
Ms. Johnstone, equality before the law is one thing, real equality is another. We see it every day, unfortunately. Normally, everyone can dream and access these programs, opportunities and funding from banks and credit unions.
What challenges do trans people encounter on a daily basis when it comes time to secure funds to start a business?
Executive Director, Wisdom2Action
Maybe I should put this into translation. I'm trying to work on my French.
I think the question was, why are people still stepping into this space, or...?
Conservative
Dominique Vien Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
In fact, every person usually has access to everything. It’s the principle of equality. I know that real equality is not necessarily the same as equality before the law.
Equality before the law exists throughout Canada; there’s no problem there. However, when it comes to accessing funding, for example, or other programs, what are the challenges you encounter as a trans person?
Executive Director, Wisdom2Action
Thank you for the question.
I'm from a military family and I'm from a middle-class family, so I am coming to this from a lot of privilege. That sets me apart from many in my community.
When I think about my community, I think about folks who are homeless, who are street-involved or who didn't have access to a post-secondary, graduate-level education. For them, it's a very different story from it would have been for me.
For me, I was feisty. I wanted to do this and I wasn't going to let anybody get in my way. For others, they don't know these programs existed in the first place. They don't know that there are federal grants to support business owners or entrepreneurs.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio
Thank you very much.
We're now going to pass it over to Lisa Hepfner for the next six minutes.
Lisa, you have the floor.
Liberal
Lisa Hepfner Liberal Hamilton Mountain, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you to two of my favourite witnesses.
Lohifa, we've known each other for years now. I consider you a friend. I am sorry for what you've been going through with your friend over the past weekend. You are someone who is always there for others. You are there for everyone. You are a stalwart in our community. In fact, you're a recent recipient of the Order of Hamilton.
One thing we've talked about is this loneliness you talked about off the top: Women entrepreneurs are in their homes. Many times, they don't have a big workplace. They don't have a lot of employees.
What are your suggestions? How do we maintain their motivation? How do we support their mental health? How do we create a community where women can look to each other, bond together and hold each other up?
Business Owner, As an Individual
Thank you. That's a really good question.
I'm going to feed off of what Fae started to speak about in regard to knowledge and the sharing of knowledge.
Yes, these programs exist, but where are they? I don't know about them. Fae clearly doesn't know about them. When the minister was speaking about certain programming, as I said, I was very confused. I thought I was in the wrong country.
Going back to my earlier point, women are very smart. As much as we challenge each other, backbite and don't support each other, we're also able to operate just as efficiently on the other side. We're also able to hold each other up, lift each other up and support each other, if given the opportunity.
I think what the government needs to do is be intentional in programming. You can't just throw money out there. I would have loved to come here to be part of a strategic planning session. I would have loved to come here to contribute and give feedback on some of the best practices that you've seen over the last few years of programming. I would have loved to come here and be a part of a brainstorming session.
We've been consulted. We've been questioned. We've been studied. We want to see action that turns out the desirable outcomes so that people are not ending up in psych wards and people are not ending up feeling stressed and lonely. Be intentional about the programming and don't just offer the funding—don't just offer solutions in theory, as Dominique said. Really be intentional about creating those spaces.
I heard the word “ecosystem” over and over again. The only ecosystems I know are the ones I created in my small community in Hamilton. I don't know of any other ecosystems that have come as a result of guidance from the government. I think that's what's needed.
Liberal
Lisa Hepfner Liberal Hamilton Mountain, ON
You heard today about a bunch of programs that we offer, and you're just not aware of them. It's not necessarily that those programs aren't there, but maybe the government needs to do a better job of explaining to people what is there and what they can access.
Is that what you would say?
Business Owner, As an Individual
Absolutely.
Also, connect it to community. We're ready to do the work. We're ready to pound the pavement, connect with each other and really just be a community, but if we don't have the leverage of knowledge and the support to do that, it's very difficult. We all just end up existing in silos, lonely and frustrated.
Liberal
Lisa Hepfner Liberal Hamilton Mountain, ON
Promise me you'll come to my office on Hamilton Mountain. We will go over all of the programs available, because it's part of my job as an MP and as your MP to let you know about those programs.
Both of you also touched on intersectionality and how that creates even more barriers for women, men and gender-diverse people, really. If you're Black, if you're indigenous or if you're gender-diverse, it adds on to the barriers.
What are your big ideas or solutions for how we minimize those barriers and even the playing field for people?
Executive Director, Wisdom2Action
I think we need to see an intergovernmental approach in part to help address this. I'd like to give a shout-out to Minister Ien and the incredible work of Women and Gender Equality Canada in particular in supporting queer and trans communities through the action plan, but I worry that within government, lot of these innovations are siloed. There aren't efforts to bridge those gaps from one department to the other to make sure that the GBA+ analysis that one department can bring is invested in that intersectional analysis and shared to others so that other ministries and departments are able to learn from the outputs from those departments and from the approach to policy.
I think that a lot of the time, we still design policy with John in mind, not Joanne. I think there's an opportunity there. I think if we build from those intersections, it better serves everybody.
Business Owner, As an Individual
I don't really like that word “intersectionality”. Yes, I know, I know, but I feel that it complicates the basis of need, really. I feel that when we start discuss intersectionalities—yes, they are important, to an extent—we lose sight of the basics. The basics for me are really just our need as women, our need as women who are feeling lonely, our need as women who are not feeling supported and our need as women who want to do better, who want to serve, but need support to do so.
Let's not overcomplicate things. Things will just get confused, and then that leads to more reports and more reports, and then nothing gets done. Let's come back to the basis, and the basis is how we support people who are in need. I think what you need to do is start to use us to help us. I don't think that's happening enough.