Status of Women Committee on Feb. 15th, 2024

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

That's why you're here.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much.

We're now going to go over for the next six minutes to Andréanne Larouche. Andréanne, you have six minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I thank both fantastic witnesses for being here with us today as part of the study.

Obviously, the more the study moves forward, the more we see the necessity of undertaking this work to explore the issue.

Right now, there are obstacles to women’s economic empowerment. However, you are one of the women telling your story about everyday life and talking about the independence that starting a business can offer. Independence is something we really strive for in order to gain economic empowerment. This independence is essential. It’s also a key aspect for many women who want to get out of certain circles.

I will come back to that later.

You also have another point in common. Indeed, your testimony is not very cheerful.

I will address Ms. Johnstone first, then I will come back to you, Ms. Pogoson Acker.

Ms. Johnstone, we met during several events. You are a very active advocate, which led to you getting hateful comments online, when it should have been an honour for you to be part of an advertising campaign.

What is the impact of online violence? I could even draw a parallel with politics.

How might this type of violence, or getting media attention, discourage women from going into politics or business?

[Fae Johnstone]

Thank you very much for the question.

Last year I was included in a Hershey Canada campaign for International Women's Day. I had the honour of having my face on a chocolate bar that you can still find in your local convenience store.

In response, Canada's dear friend Tucker Carlson did a segment on me on Fox News, and it ran across the Fox News syndicate. Over the course of the next three weeks, I had hundreds of death threats, hateful comments and other horrible things said and written about me, including private information about my family and my personal life published for the world to see.

I still have not recovered from that experience. I broke down on my partner's shoulder time and time again. I had security guards in front of my home for seven days straight who had to make sure that no one came up to my home who was not pre-approved. That is an extreme example. What happened to me was a fairly unique time and place, but it's happening to more and more trans and queer people all across this country.

We underestimate both the economic impact and the mental health impact of an environment where hate is normal again. Parents and families are going to have to flee certain provinces if nothing changes. We tell our young folks so often that they are going to be able to change the world; well, they're going to get bullied more often. If they're bullied more often, their ability and desire to contribute to our economy and to public life is going to decrease.

I do believe that we are creating a more and more poisonous and toxic environment, both in Canadian society and in our political sphere. That's why we need our elected officials. That's why we need everyone in these spaces to lift up their voices. If this becomes our new normal, it's not just going to be us who are impacted; it's going to be all marginalized folks whom we're trying to kick this door open for.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

It is not necessarily part of the subject of our study, although there is a link, but there could be legislation to fight online hate. Obviously, it has to stay within the boundaries of freedom of expression. Perhaps we can find ways of setting limits around what we can say, because it can sometimes become very violent. That’s more or less what I understood from what you said.

Ms. Pogoson Acker, we heard about the challenges women face. We see that women-owned businesses have much lower survival rates than those owned by men.

Without going into the details about what your friend went through, could you tell us about the challenges a woman might face in the business world that can lead to serious mental health problems? We talked a little bit about funding, but other than that, what obstacles are causing so many businesses to shut down and so many women to end up in these situations?

We talked about online violence in one case, but other than that, what causes a businesswoman to go through what your friend went through, which led to a health problem requiring care?

[Lohifa Pogoson Acker]

Yes, I can, and I'd like to tell a story.

I don't know how many of you watch CBC. It's Black History Month, and there is a docuseries on a lady named Beverly Mascoll. I don't know if anybody has seen that.

She was an entrepreneur in the 1970s who came to Toronto from Nova Scotia and in 1973 opened the first Black-owned beauty supply store out of Toronto. She was named to the Order of Canada in the early 1990s and died abruptly at 59 years of age of breast cancer. It was sudden and quick. There was no succession plan and there was no legacy—I mean, there was a legacy, but it was one of triumph and tragedy.

In 1973, 51 years ago, she couldn't get loans at the bank, so she started selling out of her car. She couldn't get staff to work with her because, of course, of racism and discrimination, so she started with family. You know what happens sometimes when you bring family into the room and into a business: Sometimes it's great and sometimes it's not. Scaling up the business, she didn't have support to do so.

It becomes very difficult at different junctures. If you don't get funding, or maybe you do get funding, you lack knowledge, and if you lack knowledge, you lack the application of knowledge. When you do have that knowledge and you want to apply the knowledge, sometimes the wisdom is not there. Sometimes the support is not there. We were talking about sharing, but sometimes those stories are not there, so you cannot leverage best practices from other people.

In my case, I'm thankful for backups. I'm thankful to have a community of people who support me, but not everyone is as outgoing and as outspoken as I am.

How do we reach those people who can't come out and ask for help? It's not by posting things on a website. You have to think about that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much.

Although you went a little over time, I think we all really appreciate the enthusiasm that you bring with your answers as well. It's perfect.

I'm going to pass it over to Leah. Leah, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much.

Thanks so much to both of you just wonderful witnesses.

Ms. Johnstone, you were talking about your business, and I actually said today that I know about other things than just being indigenous, so I really appreciated that comment.

You spoke about rising hate. I am very worried about it. I am very worried about the story you told. We know right now that three Canadian provinces have introduced, or will soon introduce, policy and legislation that restricts the freedom of transgender young people and their families.

What do you imagine will be the economic impact of these policies, and how can the federal government respond? How will these policies affect the ability of transgender workers and entrepreneurs to seek employment or small business supports?

In fact, last week a petition was introduced in the House that questioned, in the name of bodily autonomy of women and girls, limiting spaces for gender-diverse folks.

Can you respond to that?

[Fae Johnstone]

I think, first and foremost, that there's a rising push all around the world to repoliticize the rights of queer and trans people. That's what exists. It's on the superstructure here, and they use great rhetoric to do it. It's brilliant communication: It's the language of parental rights, and no one opposes parental rights. We have a gut reaction to supporting the rights of parents.

This is never about parents.

These policies are about those most vulnerable young people who are not ready or are not comfortable about coming out at home.

What these policies do, beyond their devastating impact on the kids who will be forced back into the closet in these provinces, is create a social environment where hate becomes more normal. Those kids who are already bullying these young folks are more likely to do so, more likely to mistreat them. What that leads to ultimately, in a conversation that's so polarized, is that when a trans kid does come out to their parents and those parents aren't supportive, the kid ends up on the street.

We know that 25% to 40% of the homeless young people in this country identify as members of the queer and trans community. If you are a homeless young person, your ability to start a business is quite a bit different from what it would be for somebody coming from a context like mine, and so the economic opportunity of those folks is immediately curtailed because they don't have a home and they aren't able to access education and they aren't able to go to university—and they're definitely not going to hear about these programs on government websites.

All of that contributes to a social and economic impact on our communities. In some cases, it will force families to leave their jobs. If you are a parent in Alberta right now and your kid needs access to gender-affirming health care, you will no longer, in the fall, be able to access that care. If your kid needs that care to survive and to make every day a little less painful from what we know is evidence-based care, that family's only choice is going to be to leave the province that they live in. That comes with a significant cost, and it comes with that kid also losing their friends.

I'm a military brat. We moved all the time. I got over it, but if you're a kid who is struggling, if you're a kid who needs health care, that is such a horrible impact on every aspect of your identity.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much for your candour about the impact of it.

Yesterday CSIS warned that the anti-gender movement poses a threat of extreme violence. What steps can the Government of Canada and parliamentarians take to address the rise of the anti-gender movement and the anti-LGBT hate in Canada?

[Fae Johnstone]

In May 2023, we at the Society of Queer Momentum, a non-profit that I work with part time as well because I don't have enough things on my plate, we launched a call to action that urged the federal government to act for queer safety. We identified recommendations that this government could take to support queer and trans communities in the face of this surge in hateful rhetoric and policies targeting us.

What I would love to see is further investment in local queer and trans organizations that are there for parents, that are there for young folks. Those organizations are also the ones best positioned to have conversations around gender and sexuality because, shockingly, much of our society doesn't know much about queer and trans people beyond the headlines that they're seeing.

There is still this residual or latent homophobia and transphobia that is being manipulated in dangerous ways by certain politicians and in particular by certain premiers.

I think I want an update to the federal action plan on 2SLGBTQI+ issues. I would love to see investments in anti-disinformation and anti-misinformation efforts. I would love to see the unveiling of, or at least the timeline for, the national action plan on combatting hate.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

How much time do I have?

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

You have 45 seconds.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I have a quick question. I know I have a second round.

Regarding sex work, I proposed in our sex trafficking study to decriminalize sex work as a harm reduction measure. It was voted down. Why is it important to decriminalize sex work?

[Fae Johnstone]

In Canada right now, we have what I would describe as partial decriminalization. There's a little bit of wiggle room, but almost every aspect around sex work continues to be criminalized.

What that means is that folks are not able to screen their johns, their clients. If you have somebody who's.... Sex workers historically have had blacklists of the clients they avoid, but they're no longer able to share those because folks don't want to—

There's the timer. Thank you for the question.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

That was on point.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

I apologize, because I don't know how to turn it off sometimes.

I'm looking at the time, and because we have committee business at a quarter after five, we have six minutes, divided into two, two, one and one.

You have two minutes, CPC.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you both for sharing your stories with us. It was very inspiring.

My first question is to Lohifa. I'm inspired by your story, and I have a few questions for you because many female entrepreneurs are in the service industry, which was the hardest hit during the pandemic.

I have a lot of female entrepreneurs in my riding who are sales reps who can work from home and raise their families: They are able to find a balance. Unfortunately, the pandemic impacted their businesses, because during the pandemic they found that people stopped purchasing a lot of products, so they had to go out and find other jobs once the pandemic was lifted. They're having issues finding child care. The waiting list is so long for $10-dollar-a-day child care that they can't get their child in.

Then there are other females who have small businesses selling natural health products, and they feel that the new legislation that's coming in is going to impact their businesses and they're going to have to shut down.

Have you any suggestions for the females who have called me with these concerns?

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Let's make it quick. You have 25 seconds.

[Lohifa Pogoson Acker]

Well, I can relate, because I started my business in hairstyling in November 2019, and we all know what happened in March 2020.

I became a non-essential service, but guess what? It's the magic “P” word: You pivot. I didn't like that word then and I don't like it now, but I had to find other ways to make money, so I took on speaking engagements and became more involved in community. I started to think of other businesses that I could handle, that I could take on. It's unfortunate the onus is on us to think of ways to diversify, but that's really what it ends up being.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much.

I'm now going to pass it over to Marc for two minutes.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you so much for your testimony and for your aspirational role model for many others.

I have another role model, my beautiful nephew and a drag queen, Michel Gervais. His drag name is Jenna Seppa—

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

He does a French.... He's from the small town of West Nipissing, Sturgeon Falls. He left high school and said he would never go back there because of the hate and some of the stigma. He went to university—Ryerson—for film, for studio. He had very supportive parents, and my sister Lynne, and Rob, and both grandmas have gone to all of his drag shows. He's gone to Toronto and Montreal and all over the country, but now he's back in Sturgeon Falls. He started pride parades, but there are still a lot of threats and hate. He's 24.

Fae, I want to ask you this: What can you tell us as a federal government that can we do to continue supporting my godchild? I know you alluded to it a bit earlier. What can we do for my nephew Michel to continue his passion and his dream for being a drag queen?