Status of Women Committee on Feb. 29th, 2024

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

That's all.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Perfect. Thank you very much.

We're now going to move on to Andréanne Larouche.

Andréanne, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for accepting our invitation.

We're wrapping up our study on women's economic empowerment. As was said earlier, March 8 is around the corner. We realize how important our study is when it comes to giving women more economic power and greater equity.

Ms. Whetung-MacInnes, on Monday night I was at a parliamentary reception with the National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association. One thing I took away from that evening was the issue of access to credit. We've already talked about it at this meeting. Funding remains particularly difficult for Indigenous communities that want to help women start up businesses and carry out fine projects.

Do you have any recommendations for us in that regard? What could we do to improve access to credit?

[Emily Whetung-MacInnes]

Currently, under the Indian Act, women—indigenous people—can't borrow against the equity in their homes. We can't leverage any property that's held by a status Indian on Indian reserve land. Until we find a mechanism to enable credit for indigenous people who are living on Indian reserve land, that's going to continue to be a problem. Canada is one of the few countries that have this kind of Indian Act that prevents the social and economic empowerment of indigenous people.

Until we've found effective ways to address that, while also protecting the unique rights of indigenous people, the unique relationship to the land.... It's an incredibly complicated question, but this is certainly a barrier to indigenous people, and indigenous women in particular, being able to find that entrepreneurial aspect in who they want to be.

I don't know that I have solutions, except that they have to be intentional and well thought out. It extends to indigenous nations and communities as well not being able to borrow against their assets. There are things like the indigenous loan guarantee program that's being talked about right now, which is an incredibly positive opportunity for indigenous participation in large-scale infrastructure projects. Something like that at an entrepreneurial level would be incredibly beneficial.

Thank you.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

On Monday evening, I really enjoyed hearing from the National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association, which works on economic development for indigenous peoples. Also, I hear what you're saying.

We talk about the importance of reconciliation and dialogue between nations. With that in mind, is the Indian Act not archaic? Doesn't it contribute to keeping women in precarious situations? Perhaps we should question the almighty Indian Act. What do you think?

[Emily Whetung-MacInnes]

The history of the Indian Act is that in 1857 it was the Gradual Civilization Act, and then it was consolidated into what is known as the Indian Act now. The entire foundation of that was to subvert the indigenous population in Canada and integrate them into the Canadian body without that indigenous identity attached to it.

The history of the Indian Act is very much that systemic removal of our identity and our ability to have socio-economic drivers in our own communities and an ability to determine who we are as individual communities, as nations, as people. That's a pretty horrific history, and to think that we still have legislation to that effect on the books.... However, it is also the act that protects the rights of indigenous people in unique ways. It's certainly not something that can be removed wholesale, but there are a number of opportunities to create off-ramps that indigenous nations can opt into instead of the Indian Act, to replace that legislation.

I think that's probably the best opportunity that we have right now to start to address these issues, but potentially finding ways to create credit opportunities with the equity that we have in things like our homes and our land in order to participate in the economy would be, to me, the next stepping point.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

That's interesting. You've just provided some very useful insight. As my colleague said earlier, you have quite an impressive résumé. You're working on electrification and the energy transition in Ontario.

Last Thursday evening, I attended an event organized by the Réseau des femmes d'affaires du Québec for International Women's Day celebrations. It was at the Business Development Bank of Canada, or BDC, in Montreal. It was great because, in that discussion group, the director of the BDC, a representative of EVOL and the director of the Réseau des Femmes d'affaires du Québec, Ms. Vachon, all said how beneficial it was to have women start businesses too, because their vision includes sustainable development and they have very promising projects for advancing technologies.

How do you see the role of women in terms of the need to advance technologies and begin a much greener transition? What's your vision of women's leadership?

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

You have about 30 seconds.

[Emily Whetung-MacInnes]

I see a great opportunity. In the energy transition conversations that I've been a part of, women have a different perspective on long-term planning. I think that's a real opportunity that needs to be leveraged and included.

My experience has been—not wholesale, but mostly—that women are looking to plan for their children, their children's children and many generations into the future. This culturally resonates with me as an important aspect of what energy planning needs to look like. We can't focus just on 2035 and 2050. We have to continue to focus on what comes next and innovate to make sure we are being respectful of climate change and creating that space.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Perfect. Thank you so much.

I'll now move it over to Leah Gazan online, for six minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My first question is for Ms. Whetung-MacInnes.

In the last Parliament, we passed Bill C-15 to make sure that all legislation going forward is compatible with the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. Since its passing in the last Parliament, at every angle the current government has tried to fight against it. The first example was with the child care legislation, to include free, prior and informed consent of indigenous peoples on all decisions or matters impacting indigenous children. We managed to get that through committee in spite of the Liberals.

The most recent example actually happened this week. It was with a private member's bill, Bill C-318, which I attempted to amend so that it would be consistent with Bill C-15. It was to change the adoption framework to include kinship and customary care. In Manitoba, for example, 90% of kids who are currently in the child welfare system are indigenous. Many of them are cared for in kinship and customary care arrangements, such as by grandmothers or aunties.

How is supporting kinship and customary care through EI regimes, and including that as part of shifts in EI regimes, important to supporting indigenous women in the workplace?

[Emily Whetung-MacInnes]

Thank you, Leah.

I think it's incredibly important that we have the opportunity for kinship care and recognition of the cultural relationships within family that we already have, that exist, and be able to support those women and recognize that they also need access to things like child care and the support of community and policies that support the ability to continue to do both. There is not an indigenous person in Canada who isn't in some way impacted by the child welfare system. It's just a fact. It's a fact we all face on a regular basis.

Indigenous governance, indigenous chiefs and councils and first nations governance are consistently dealing with how we ensure that there are connections between children from our communities and their culture. How do we maintain that? The more support there is for kinship care and child care in our communities, the more opportunity there is for that to continue to be done.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Following up on that, we know through the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls that the child welfare system is a direct line, a “pipeline”, into becoming murdered or missing. I see that in the community I represent in Winnipeg Centre, when we had the tragedy that started the whole national inquiry. Young Tina Fontaine was murdered in our community.

How is a failure of governments to deal with things like amending the Indian Act, as they're doing right now with Bill C-38, incrementally, to ensure that indigenous women have the same rights as other women in the country, and not including us in EI regimes...? I say “us”, because the care is done primarily by indigenous women. It impacts indigenous women. How does this place us at greater risk for things like gender-based violence, difficulties with obtaining employment, difficulty with obtaining housing and so forth?

[Emily Whetung-MacInnes]

For indigenous women as primary caregivers in our communities, for indigenous people generally, for our children, it's a real struggle. I don't know if you've had an opportunity to read the book If I Go Missing. It is incredibly impactful, and it's a demonstration of this real fear for every indigenous woman across Canada—the fear that I might be next, so please treat me with the same respect with which you treat non-indigenous men when there are issues, and please search for me in the same way. It's incredibly powerful and impactful.

I'm not sure that I've captured your question there, Leah, but it was something that came to mind. I hope you have an opportunity to read it.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Absolutely.

I want to move on to Ms. Cooper.

Thank you so much for being here today as well. You spoke about safe and affordable housing. I know my good colleague and very good friend Lori Idlout speaks a lot about the housing crisis in Nunavut. She gave an example of how one house in her community is being held together by duct tape—it's that severe.

How does this impact women, especially in relation to being able to participate economically, being able to flee gender-based violence situations if they occur? Would it help to have a mesh of a guaranteed livable basic income, in light of the high rates of unemployment that are a result of a limited job market, in addition to affordable and accessible housing in the community, if we're going to really deal with gender-based violence, with full participation of women in whatever way in communities?

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

You have 15 seconds.

[Rosemary Cooper]

Thank you very much for your question.

Definitely housing is the foundation of any work that we do or any family situation that our communities are faced with. I did listen to MP Lori Idlout raise this in the House. If we don't have the foundation in housing that addresses health, violence and TB—all of these indicators that we see in Inuit Nunangat—we're going to constantly see Inuit women limited in their ability to be in the workforce.

I'm sorry, but I wish I had more time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

I know. It's such an important answer.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I'll catch you after.

[Rosemary Cooper]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Perfect.

We're now going to start our next round, and we'll begin with Dominique Vien for five minutes.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you to our guests for participating in our study today.

I will repeat my mantra: We have equal rights, but that has yet to translate into equality in fact. It's important to remember that, especially since International Women's Day is coming up. We're all very happy to talk about it, but from one celebration to the next, things are slow to move forward.

Ms. Whetung-MacInnes, you're a lawyer, you work in the energy sector and you're also an Indigenous mother. However, you didn't talk a lot about your role as chief of your community, which is a political role, if I understand correctly. How do you play that role as a woman on a daily basis? How do you use the leverage available to you to help women in your community?

I understand that you're probably in the same situation as all mothers in Canada, that is to say that you carry a huge mental burden, with everything you have to do at home. Even if they have a good spouse, the fact remains that women have the biggest mental burden.

So, as the leader of your community, how do you advance the cause of women on a daily basis?

[Emily Whetung-MacInnes]

Thank you.

I'm no longer the chief of Curve Lake First Nation. I stepped back from that role in 2022. When I was in that role, I had eight months after my election before we started dealing with the global pandemic and finding ways to support families through that. Mothers, in particular, had a significant cognitive role. It took a huge amount of energy and effort. Certainly it's an important thing to navigate on a daily basis, as leadership. Some of the most important things that I did were to demonstrate that with support and help you can continue to do both of these things. I think that it was an important time to have someone who understood the concerns of mothers and parents, bringing information into the community to support them through learning about the virus and the pandemic and how to navigate that process.

I'm hoping that I've spoken a little bit to your question, but I'm happy to answer more.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Personally, that's what I'm interested in, yes. I thought you were still chief, but that's neither here nor there. The experience you had was certainly important for the women in your community. For example, did you set up any organizations or services in particular? Under your leadership, did women in your community get any special help? There are probably not enough women like you leading communities.

[Emily Whetung-MacInnes]

I think there are a growing number of female indigenous chiefs, which is a phenomenal role to be a part of. When I was elected and I attended my first assembly of first nations, there were four other female chiefs sitting together, who took me under their wing and supported my growth in that role. Without such mentorship, I think we would not have women in leadership in the way that we do. It's an incredibly important part.

My community, as I said, has always been incredibly supportive of women. I feel like the majority of supports for women in our community were in place by the time I was elected. We have a day care centre in our community, which takes children as young as six weeks and, without cost to indigenous women in our community, supports those children until they reach our school program. We have before- and after-school care at our day care centre for indigenous mothers in our community. Seeing the benefits of that is incredibly important, and I think it's one of the best things that ever happened to my community.