Status of Women Committee on April 30th, 2026

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

A lot of the time, seniors feel shame when they get defrauded, and they don't report it.

What can we do as a government to assure them that they're not alone, that this happens—

[The Chair, Conservative, Dominique Vien]

The time is over, Ms. Roberts. I'm so sorry.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dominique Vien]

Ms. Church, you have the floor.

[Leslie Church, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Welcome to all of our witnesses. Maybe I'll just pick up with Dr. Williamson and Dr. Kelly.

One thing that's part of the national anti-fraud strategy is a commitment to a code of conduct for the prevention of economic abuse, specifically, looking at ways that our financial institutions can identify, prevent and respond to the types of fraud that we're talking about today.

Do you have any guidance for us in terms of what should be a part of this code and how the code will help reduce some of the risks that we're hearing about? Do you know of any best practices that we should be considering while we're developing this?

[Dr. Pamela Williamson]

I know that we gave a lot of recommendations when we met with the Minister of Finance, so those will be part of the report.

In terms of a report that we did back in 2019, one of the things that we really recommended was not only the ability to protect them from financial scams specific to family or to external...but also that there needs to be more consumer protection. That means against high-pressure sales tactics and the fact that they may have more bank accounts than they need. I'm sorry that I'm being very specific about some things, but that is an area that really needs to be considered as part of fraud or scams to individuals.

It's very delicate to talk about that because it's very much part of our society that we receive not only.... When we are looking for very specific services, there's always this.... What is it called when you are sold more?

[Leslie Church, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

You are upsold.

[Dr. Pamela Williamson]

Thank you. I'm sorry. I'm at a loss for words at the moment.

That is one of the things that have not been discussed but should be considered as part of what we call a scam.

I'm not sure I quite answered your question.

[Leslie Church, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

That's interesting because it does raise the question of how broadly a code like this should apply, beyond just the financial sector and into the retail sector, where we know that frauds are also taking place. Some of the frauds that might start on the phone or online often wind up in a retail environment.

What do you think in terms of the scope of where these frauds are occurring, and how do we make sure that we're capturing the full range of organizations and institutions where seniors can be at risk?

[Dr. Pamela Williamson]

I'll be brief because I know Christine has her hand up.

We recommended that it be a consideration in a number of multisectors. There should be an onus placed on a number of different organizations where there is the potential to harm somebody financially. I think those are areas where there also have to be some guidelines put in and some responsibilities that are clearly outlined to them.

[Christine Kelly]

I want to add something that came up in the consultation.

This is a voluntary code, and it will only apply to federally regulated financial institutions. Where I am in the Prairies, we have a lot of people, young and old, using the caisse populaire, like in Quebec. This idea that the provincially run credit unions aren't really covered in this round came up in our consultations as something that needs further thought—even while it's voluntary—to make sure that it's covering where people do their banking day to day to protect them from financial abuse.

[Leslie Church, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Mr. Lynam, I'd like to ask you about the national anti-fraud strategy, which is being worked on and consulted on and which is going to bring together financial institutions and telecommunications and technology into more of a framework to deal with this at a systemic level.

What would be your best advice to us in terms of thinking about how that strategy should develop? Do we have all of the right players at the table? What are the different components of it that would make that as effective...?

[Chris Lynam]

Thank you for the question.

One of the—

[The Chair, Conservative, Dominique Vien]

Mr. Lynam, I'm sorry for interrupting, but the time is up.

Colleagues, we have very little time left: around six minutes. I'm going to suggest two minutes for each party, if that works for you.

Mrs. Goodridge, you have the floor for two minutes.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Lynam, I think the question from Ms. Church deserves an answer, so would you like to start with that?

[Chris Lynam]

Absolutely.

Part of the strategy consultation is how we enhance law enforcement working with each other.

One of the key aspects—and it's a theme of this whole conversation today—is that it's going to take a society working together to address this. We need more law enforcement working with the private sector and other sectors on the prevention side and the pursuing side—that integration of many different players—to reduce the impact of fraud on Canadians.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you.

I represent Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, all the way up in northern Alberta. I've lived there my entire life. We've always been an RCMP jurisdiction.

One of the interesting pieces.... I'm wondering if you guys have any data to show the difference between fraud in urban versus rural, because I can see the difference. Do you guys have any data or strategies that differ on that?

[Chris Lynam]

At my fingertips—no, I can't speak to that right now. I can take it away.

As I mentioned, we get reporting from across the country. We could go and look to see, even in your jurisdiction, what the trend is and what we've had reported to us. I can take that as a take-away.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

If you could table that with the committee, that would be spectacular.

[Chris Lynam]

Yes.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

I'm going to give a shout-out to my local RCMP in Fort McMurray. They are doing some really great work in communications and stuff to give information on this and get it to people where they're at. If more people were able to do that, if more police services were able to provide that information, that would be very useful. They could be going to different coffee parties, going to senior centres and sharing this information.

I still remember this one circumstance. Someone came to us and they were leaving early because they had to go get a whole bunch of Apple gift cards. We asked why they were getting Apple gift cards, and they said that the CRA wanted them. We said, “The CRA will never ask you for an Apple gift card.”

[The Chair, Conservative, Dominique Vien]

Thank you very much. Two minutes goes by really fast.

Mr. Chen, you have the floor for two minutes.

[Shaun Chen, Liberal, Scarborough North, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I represent a riding that is incredibly diverse. We actually have one of the largest not-for-profit seniors homes, the Yee Hong Centre. I know that with diverse communities, including new immigrant communities, there are many challenges that are faced when it comes to older seniors, including older senior women, with respect to stigma, mistrust of institutions, cultural dissonance and the language barrier.

My question is for Mr. Lynam.

In terms of what we've heard today and throughout the study, the challenges on reporting, gaps in prevention and the need for improvements in fraud detection and public awareness, what do think can be done better to ensure that diverse and new immigrant communities, where English or French is not a first language, can be educated on these issues?

[Chris Lynam]

Fraud impacts everybody in Canada, but in some situations new immigrants or new Canadians get scammed by certain types of scams.

We need to do more in our total outreach. We need to figure out how to get that type of messaging out and engage those community associations that can help us deliver those messages. We do some of that now, but there's definitely room for doing more of that.

[Shaun Chen, Liberal, Scarborough North, ON]

What do you believe the government can do to help support organizations, like yours, that are working in partnership with police forces and others across the country to reach out to these communities?