Evidence of meeting #3 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was international.
11:50 a.m.
Director General, Surface Infrastructure Programs, Department of Transport
They're covered if they make changes or alterations to their--
11:50 a.m.
Legal Counsel, Legal Services, Department of Transport
Or transfers to the bridge they own.
11:50 a.m.
Director General, Surface Infrastructure Programs, Department of Transport
Or they want to sell.
May 11th, 2006 / 11:50 a.m.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
I'd like to go back to clauses 15(b) and (c). I don't know whether this is a problem.
At the end of clause 15(c), it is stated, and I quote: “including [...] the person or body who is responsible for dealing with complaints”.
I suppose this refers to the owner or operator, or trying to identify the person.
11:50 a.m.
Legal Counsel, Legal Services, Department of Transport
We want to identify the person who will decide on how the complaint is resolved.
11:50 a.m.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
Are you referring to the Department of Transport or the owner?
11:50 a.m.
Legal Counsel, Legal Services, Department of Transport
In fact, for there to be a complaint settlement mechanism, the complaint must be put before a person, and that person must have the power to decide. The purpose of this wording is to make it possible, by regulation, to identify the person—whether it's a government representative or an adjudicator—to whom users could go and complain about a toll and who would have to make a decision after hearing the parties.
11:50 a.m.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
So you mean a federal organization; that's what you mean. In fact, this isn't clear.
11:50 a.m.
Legal Counsel, Legal Services, Department of Transport
Ultimately, this provision permits the making of regulations. Its purpose is to permit regulations to be made to identify the person who will make the decision, without that person or organization necessarily being identified for the moment.
11:50 a.m.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
I'm going back to clause 15(b). It states, and I quote:
15.(b) respecting the tolls, fees and other charges that may be imposed by owners or operators of international bridges or tunnels for their use, to ensure the efficient flow of traffic;
As you said a bit earlier, the purpose of this paragraph is to ensure the efficient flow of traffic. Would it be possible for you to make a recommendation, or a requirement, that the toll collection system be modified to ensure more efficient traffic flow? In fact, there could be various collection methods, such as manual methods or more efficient methods, such as visual detection methods.
11:55 a.m.
Legal Counsel, Legal Services, Department of Transport
When we drafted this provision, we were thinking about the amounts of the tolls charged, for example, two, three, four or five dollars.
11:55 a.m.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
You're talking about costs, but that would slow down traffic flow.
11:55 a.m.
Legal Counsel, Legal Services, Department of Transport
I don't agree with that view.
11:55 a.m.
Legal Counsel, Legal Services, Department of Transport
In fact, it's a supply and demand issue. The higher the price, the more users could potentially choose other options than the bridge in question. In my view, that's possible in some regions where users really have options. One could then consider raising or lowering the price.
11:55 a.m.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
It seems to me that requirement isn't designed to ensure efficient traffic flow, but to increase capacity.
11:55 a.m.
Director General, Surface Infrastructure Programs, Department of Transport
That's not correct. If, tomorrow morning, a bridge operator decided to charge a much lower toll, that would attract an enormous number of vehicles and cause a traffic problem. The bridge would be backed up.
We must establish a mechanism that will rebalance demand for the various options available in a region.
11:55 a.m.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
That's one way of looking at things, but we could also consider the collection method. If you have an archaic collection method, which slows down traffic, you could ask that there be a more efficient mechanism.
11:55 a.m.
Director General, Surface Infrastructure Programs, Department of Transport
Those things can be discussed when the regulations are examined. However, we hadn't considered getting that far.
11:55 a.m.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
The wording could allow that, which would result in major collection system costs.
11:55 a.m.
Director General, Surface Infrastructure Programs, Department of Transport
That's not our intention, but we would examine that question at the appropriate time.
11:55 a.m.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
Are the U.S. measures similar to what you want to do? Is there a national standard for all these tolls? Does that vary with each state? Currently it varies with each of the provinces.
11:55 a.m.
Director General, Surface Infrastructure Programs, Department of Transport
In the United States, they use what's called a presidential permit. In the case of a new construction or an infrastructure change, an application must be made to the U.S. government, which then triggers the process. So we're going to rely on that model to establish our system, in cooperation with the operators and governments.
