Evidence of meeting #37 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sms.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
What evidence were you or your association given that this matter is being addressed? And you're now satisfied. On the basis of what information are you satisfied?
4:10 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Aerospace Industries Association of Canada
Bob, can you maybe address this? You participated more directly in some of these discussions.
4:10 p.m.
Robert Mather Vice-President, Civil Aviation, Aerospace Industries Association of Canada
Yes, thank you.
What Mr. Boag said comes from the discussions our member companies have had with the various working groups the civil aviation administration has set up to implement SMS. There have been a number of information sessions across the country run by Transport Canada officials in which our members and others have participated, and these questions have been put directly to the Transport Canada managers who are implementing SMS. We are assured by these people—
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
I understand that, but on the basis of what information are you reassured--just the fact that they are saying they're addressing these matters, or on the evidence that they have indeed been addressed?
4:10 p.m.
Vice-President, Civil Aviation, Aerospace Industries Association of Canada
We're engaged with them in developing the standards and regulations that will be necessary to implement SMS in practice. So in fact—
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
So there's no evidence that.... No, I'm not going to conclude for you. Have you been presented with any evidence that concerns about cost vis-à-vis SMSs for smaller companies are addressed, or have you just been given reassurances or assurances by officials?
4:10 p.m.
Vice-President, Civil Aviation, Aerospace Industries Association of Canada
It is that partnership between us and Transport Canada working with them to develop the regulations—
4:10 p.m.
Vice-President, Civil Aviation, Aerospace Industries Association of Canada
I don't think we have any written assurances.
4:10 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Helicopter Association of Canada
Mr. Chairman, I could answer that question.
About two or almost three years ago now, I recommended to Transport Canada, within the context of one of the meetings that Bob was mentioning, that there be a pilot project to test SMS with small and medium-sized enterprises in the same way that SMS had been tested before implementation, for example, with Air Transat and with Air Canada.
Transport Canada accepted that recommendation and they put together a pilot project, in cooperation with HAC among others. I believe about 20 companies participated in that.
The feedback I got from the helicopter side and also the maintenance of helicopters was that it was a very productive process. The feedback I got from Transport Canada.... I couldn't tell you today who's told me anything specific, but I know the process is going forward and that we are checking to see how we'd adapt SMS to small and medium-sized companies, so it is a useful tool and not just another paperwork exercise.
I'm certainly confident that SMS is going to be scalable to small companies, and it is going to be productive for small companies also.
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
Thank you.
Good afternoon, gentlemen. I was also surprised by the comments of Mr. Holbrook of the Canadian Federal Pilots Association. They confirm the concerns we have had from the beginning regarding this bill as a whole.
Your report raises many questions. You talk about forecast budget cuts and a 50% reduction in the number of personnel in a few years. What is the basis for your statements? Are you referring to specific documents?
4:15 p.m.
National Chair, Canadian Federal Pilots Association
The documents talking about the reduction in inspectors refer to demographic studies done both in the public service and by the department itself that expect up to 40% to 50% of the inspectorate will be eligible for retirement over the next few years, so that creates a potential liability for a reduction because of attrition and retirements and aging.
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
Is this reduction in personnel due to the bill currently being studied, which would allow for a reduction of Department of Transport personnel?
4:15 p.m.
National Chair, Canadian Federal Pilots Association
Those reductions in personnel will not be directly as a result of this bill. I think the initiatives contained in this bill are part of the plan by Transport Canada to deal with lack of personnel and no program to recruit and replace those individuals.
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
You recommend that section 5.31, which deals with designated organizations to monitor small companies, be rescinded.
Do you expect that primarily small companies will be regulated by a designated organization?
4:15 p.m.
National Chair, Canadian Federal Pilots Association
We see section 5.31 as enabling complete delegation to establish safety standards and the monitoring of compliance with those safety standards to all sectors of the industry, not just small or large operators. The way we understand it, that provision will provide for that capability to be applied without restriction to any sector of the industry the minister decides.
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
In your opinion, are major air carriers already well positioned with regard to safety management. Let us take Mr. Boucher's company as an example.
4:15 p.m.
National Chair, Canadian Federal Pilots Association
As reflected in our survey, 92% of our membership believes that SMS is a good concept. Our message here today is that it's the application and changeover to a different program of oversight that is the issue.
A lot of the initiatives Mr. Boucher referred to as promoting safety communication within the company are good ideas, but they're not the reason to stop doing the regulatory oversight activities that have brought us to the level of safety we have today.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to all the witnesses for being here today.
Mr. Holbrook, you've presented us with a very impressive and detailed presentation. We've just received this, so we obviously won't have time to really go through the breadth and depth of all the information you're bringing forward.
I formally request, Mr. Chair, that we ask Mr. Holbrook to come back. There is no way we can get through all the information he's provided today.
To start off, Mr. Holbrook, I want to come back to the point Mr. Bélanger made around the message you received from Mr. Preuss. Do you believe it was an attempt to intimidate?
4:20 p.m.
National Chair, Canadian Federal Pilots Association
I can't speak to what Mr. Preuss's intentions were.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
But certainly there was an indication that it would not be seen favourably.
