Evidence of meeting #44 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was train.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, to all three of you, for attending today. Your testimony is very helpful as we move forward in addressing some of these safety issues.
I'd like to address quickly, first of all, what appears to be perhaps the elephant in the room, and I'd like to just make a statement. That is, all three of you, even though we're addressing rail safety in general...your comments have, for the most part, focused on one company, that being CN.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Am I correct in stating that if you had to focus on one particular issue, or perhaps company, within the rail system in Canada, it would be CN?
As perhaps a follow-up question, which I'll pose to Mr. Anderson, is the safety culture within CN markedly different from what it would be in perhaps some of the other railways?
Alternate Canadian Legislative Director, United Transportation Union
First of all, all I can speak to is CN, because that's where I work. But I have sat on the health and safety policy committee at CN Rail, and we have different executives from the various unions who also sit on both committees, both at CP Rail and at CN. They tell us that there is a marked difference in philosophy over there. In order to get something to move at CN Rail, it's like pulling hens' teeth.
For the regional carriers, I really can't say.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
That's consistent with what we heard from Mr. Rhodes as well, who appeared before us on Monday, who had experience at BC Rail and then later on at CN.
That concerns me, that we have such a variance in the safety cultures within the different companies that operate our railways.
As second question, again to you, Mr. Anderson, Mr. Julian had earlier suggested that privatization had been the cause of a decline of safety within the railways, and I sensed that you were trying to correct him somewhat by saying that privatization wasn't the issue, because privatization obviously led to some efficiencies—I think all of us would agree that efficiency is good—but it's more a lack of sufficient regulations and oversight of the railway industry that is causing these problems. Am I correct in my characterization?
Alternate Canadian Legislative Director, United Transportation Union
Absolutely.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
All right.
Then, as a follow-up, I was concerned about Mr. Holliday's reference to perhaps individuals from the company even going and pulling defect stickers off some of the railcars.
You indicated that you didn't have confirmation of that. I would ask that you perhaps provide this committee with that, because at this point in time, it's simply hearsay. We'd like to have hard evidence of that, if it's available.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Then finally, again, Mr. Anderson, you'd also talked about various reports over the years that had not been followed. I assume you're referring to things such as TSB reports, the Foisy commission, that in fact there appears to have been a lack of follow-up on implementing many of those recommendations. Is that what you said?
Alternate Canadian Legislative Director, United Transportation Union
Well, to have those recommendations still in force.
I also believe that after accidents or injuries sometimes it's a knee-jerk reaction. Those recommendations need to be evaluated, communicated to all stakeholders, and then communicated to one another again to see what's logical, what's not logical, or cost related, I would imagine.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Mr. Holliday, you had indicated—I believe you almost referenced the fact—that you were born into a railway family, that most of your life has been spent working within the railway system.
Acting General Chairperson, United Transportation Union
That's correct. I grew up on railway bread and butter, a second-generation railroader.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Do you recall ever, during those years, any government undertaking a full, independent review of the railway system in Canada and safety within that system? Do you recall that ever happening?
Acting General Chairperson, United Transportation Union
The first thing that comes to mind is the CANALERT study of 1995, released in 1996. It was called CANALERT '95, and I believe it was implemented after the Hinton disaster.
That's the only one I can think of, off the top of my head.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
So you're not aware of any further safety reviews that have been done since 1995 on a national basis, with the power to make sweeping recommendations.
Acting General Chairperson, United Transportation Union
There was a National Research Council study done in 2003, based on a study done in 1995, I believe, comparing the former BC Rail to CN.
Conservative
Acting General Chairperson, United Transportation Union
Oh, right. I see what you mean.
Acting General Chairperson, United Transportation Union
No, not off the top of my head.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Do you recall any formal safety review being conducted by this particular committee in, say, the last 10 years?
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
You're aware that now not only this process is going on but the government has struck an independent panel to review safety within the rail system in Canada?
