Evidence of meeting #55 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 39th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sms.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed
I'm going to defer it until Wednesday, because we are running out of time, and this room is booked for six o'clock.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
Maybe they could move, Mr. Chairman, given that I'm not too sure who is coming. They may be colleagues of ours. Don't parliamentary committees have precedence?
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
So if there's a will to continue until the vote tonight, perhaps we could.
Conservative
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed
It's the Liberal Party, and we do have...whatever the right word is.
If it is the will of the committee, we'll continue with questioning. As I said, I would like to get to some resolution on this at some point before the day is out.
Go ahead, Monsieur Laframboise.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
I have a final series of questions, Mr. Chairman, and then I will be finished.
Mr. Reinhardt, it is true that as soon as an accident happens the Transportation Safety Board steps in. I have no problem with that. However, since under paragraphs (a), (b) and (c), the minister may have to disclose information before the courts, that would in all likelihood happen in cases involving accidents. Otherwise, I don't see why he should reveal the information to a court. Do you agree?
Director, Regulatory Services, Civil Aviation, Department of Transport
It could involve cases where legal action is taken to collect damages, for example, or for any other reason.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
Indeed, if a case ended up before the courts, it's because something serious would have happened.
What you are basically telling me is that within the framework of the safety management system, employees are encouraged to come forward with information. I agree with that as long as the system protects the employees. However, we are dealing with a situation where the minister has information on a company which, for various reasons, has been collected over the years.
Director, Regulatory Services, Civil Aviation, Department of Transport
It's usually only when we check their system that we can obtain bits of information. Most of the time, the information stays with the company. As a result, I don't think that a lot of information would have been accumulated.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
The SMS was already in place in some companies. Did you recover information on certain companies?
Director, Regulatory Services, Civil Aviation, Department of Transport
We would check to see if the internal alert system was working. Generally speaking, we don't bring any information back with us. If things work well, we indicate that the business has a certain type of system, that it works well; we indicate how many employees there are and what forms were used, but we don't specify, for example, that five incidents were reported, including a violation. We try not to do so, but it might happen.
Director, Regulatory Services, Civil Aviation, Department of Transport
Yes, but not in cases where people could have been... We try not to touch that information.
Director, Regulatory Services, Civil Aviation, Department of Transport
But I cannot guarantee that, sir. There may have been cases.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
Will you have to report more cases under the bill or will your way of doing things stay the same?
Director, Regulatory Services, Civil Aviation, Department of Transport
As Mr. Preuss always said, we try to make sure that what happens internally remains, as much as possible, between the employees and the company. But when we conduct an inspection and give a company a good mark once we're back at the office, we do note certain details about the systems. In those cases, for instance, we might indicate that 25 incidents were reported, but that good decisions were taken, such as corrective measures, etc. It proves that the system works. Will we detail the reported incidents? We try to do that as little as possible, but once in a while we may report details.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
My problem is that from the moment when the minister will have to table the documents, the information will become public. If I cannot ask the minister whether he has information on a company, and, as the case may be, to provide us with the information or to make it public, I have a problem with that as a member of Parliament. If my colleagues don't, I'm not worried about it, because that's their business. So the minister would be able to protect a great deal of detailed information on a company. As you said earlier, there may be consequences for a company, including losing its licence. The company could, for example, take the government to court and the case may end up before the courts. But under the bill, the minister would not be able to make any information public because of the investigation. That's what I'm wondering about.
Perhaps you see things I don't, but I wonder, in the public interest, whether the public should not have access to the information which is in the hands of the minister. You said that an airline could lose its licence, and that's a completely different decision. Are you telling me that my idea would endanger the entire system?
Director, Regulatory Services, Civil Aviation, Department of Transport
No, but as you know, the Access to Information Act has been around for a long time. When people ask us for information on a company, under section 20 we have to consult that company. If the matter involves financial information or proprietary information, it is protected. This is information which the minister would not disclose.
In the case of Jetsgo, for example, the bad financial situation of the company was revealed at the same time as the company ceased its operations. It was not the minister's responsibility to disclose the privileged information. We had information concerning security, so we did something about it. We did everything we could in that area. We were not shy about doing what we had to do and about justifying what we had done given the information we had.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
But a company may lose its licence for safety reasons. Aren't you afraid that this bill would prevent you from revealing that kind of information?
