Evidence of meeting #56 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sms.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
I'm wondering, Mr. Chair, if I could hear from the department.
Basically I understand this NDP-7.2 amendment to actually counter all the ability to designate an organization to do exactly what you'd want it to do. So in essence, clause 12, by adding this, nullifies it completely. Is that fair to say?
3:45 p.m.
Director, Regulatory Services, Civil Aviation, Department of Transport
Yes. Most of the potential associations that we could designate or type of activities we could designate--
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
So in fact it nullifies exactly what you're trying to do with this legislation?
3:45 p.m.
Director, Regulatory Services, Civil Aviation, Department of Transport
Yes.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
Do you have any further comments in relation to an aerodrome and an air navigation service? I'd like to hear about each of these.
3:45 p.m.
Director, Regulatory Services, Civil Aviation, Department of Transport
On aerodromes, as you know, there are about 7,000 aerodromes--probably 600 airports and 2,000 registered aerodromes--in Canada. There are lots of private aerodromes of some commercial nature, but they are self-sufficient and could easily be designated. There doesn't seem to be any danger there. It's very low risk.
As you know, we fettered those provisions last week by giving full control to the minister on the review of the regulations. We believe that after having done this it's no longer necessary to remove those things.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
Actually, could you wait for that last comment until Mr. Julian has finished? Perhaps you could direct that to him on his amendment.
You mentioned that the manufacturing sector may not be necessary, but what about the other...? Would an aerodrome be an appropriate designated organization, in your opinion? Could you go through the list on NDP-7.2?
3:45 p.m.
Director, Regulatory Services, Civil Aviation, Department of Transport
Okay. On commercial air services, as I mentioned, there are definitely types of commercial air service that would be an appropriate candidate for designation.
Yes, with respect to aerodromes. With the number of aerodromes we have in Canada, it's very low risk.
On air navigation services other than Nav Canada, there is currently another small air navigation service that could easily be designated.
With respect to manufacturers of aeronautical products, there are all sorts of aeronautical products. They need to meet specific certification criteria and they will still need to meet those criteria. They don't necessarily need to be licensed as manufacturers per se, so I don't think it should be there.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
If I understand it correctly, they cannot be designated unless they're low risk.
3:45 p.m.
Director, Regulatory Services, Civil Aviation, Department of Transport
Correct.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
Indeed, some of these categories would fit into low risk and be more efficient to carry out SMS.
3:45 p.m.
Director, Regulatory Services, Civil Aviation, Department of Transport
That's correct. There will also be a safety study with a risk assessment to be reviewed by the minister before making the decision.
Also, all the rules and standards established by those designated organizations will now be required to be reviewed and approved by the minister. There's a fail-safe provision there to ensure the full oversight by the minister.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
In essence, there are three levels, if I'm hearing you correctly.
3:45 p.m.
Director, Regulatory Services, Civil Aviation, Department of Transport
That's correct.
3:45 p.m.
Director General, Civil Aviation, Department of Transport
You could also add a fourth level where you're dealing with products that would be sold overseas. Anything we would do that would reduce the standard as seen by other nations wouldn't happen. We couldn't allow it to happen. It would have a terrible impact on our economy, which is in the order of $22 billion to $23 billion in this area.
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
Good afternoon.
On the list of exemptions mentioned, the one that concerns me the most is commercial air service. If a business is already offering a commercial service, I think there is a possibility of conflict of interest between the designated organization and other businesses for which it might be responsible.
Would it be possible for the designated organization to be an association of airlines which does not have a specific interest in a business?
3:50 p.m.
Director, Regulatory Services, Civil Aviation, Department of Transport
As I mentioned earlier, passenger air transport is definitely not a candidate for designation. We mentioned that, and we moved an amendment to that effect. So there's no danger.
As I mentioned, there are other commercial air services, such as, for example, geodetic monitoring, the search for ore, pipeline monitoring and all kinds of monitoring that are done using small aircraft. That is a commercial service, but there are not any passengers. There is no danger. Only the pilot is there. Those are good candidates. Those that offer an air spraying service are also good candidates.
Of course, if we designate an organization, it should not be... In general, the intent is to designate an association that represents these people. However, we're nevertheless dealing with a commercial air service. These people individually offer a commercial air service because they are paid for the work they do.
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
But associations of air services could be identified instead as organizations—
3:50 p.m.
Director, Regulatory Services, Civil Aviation, Department of Transport
I understand you very well, Mr. Carrier, but I think that the way it is currently drafted means that we can't do that.
3:50 p.m.
Director, Regulatory Services, Civil Aviation, Department of Transport
The wording should be changed. But I'm not sure that's necessary, given all the other protections that have been inserted in the last amendment.
