I see.
Evidence of meeting #9 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was investigation.
Evidence of meeting #9 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was investigation.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you very much for coming. Your work is extremely important.
I've met some of the TSB investigators and I've always found them to be extremely professional.
I'd like to start off by asking, how many current investigations are in play and in what sectors?
11:45 a.m.
Acting Chairman, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
We'll have to get back to you. I can give you a ballpark figure; we have anywhere between 75 and 100 ongoing in any given year.
If you want the exact breakdown, we can get that for you.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
How would those be divided among the various sectors: marine, transportation, air, rail, pipeline?
11:45 a.m.
Acting Chairman, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
The majority is air.
What percentage, Nick?
11:45 a.m.
Nick Stoss Acting Director General, Investigation Operations, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
About 55% of the investigations would be air. The marine would probably be somewhere in the neighbourhood of about 25%, and I guess that would leave us about 20% for rail.
11:45 a.m.
Acting Chairman, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
The pipelines have very few, perhaps one to two a year.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
The issue that seems to have come up with both my colleagues, Mr. Hubbard and Mr. Laframboise, is the question of compliance. You have the power to make recommendations. The statute foresees that there is 90 days for the minister to reply on the finding. But there's no mechanism to ensure any compliance whatsoever. Is that not correct?
11:45 a.m.
Acting Chairman, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
If you're talking about the power to order people to do things, no, we don't have that in our legislation. There's a reason for that. It has been the thinking here in Canada, and around the world, in the U.S., Australia, and New Zealand, for example, that the regulator and the investigative body should be separate. This has been the model that Canada has followed since the early 1990s.
It's really a matter of independence. In the investigations, we may be looking at the regulator, we may be looking at their actions, we could be looking at steps they have taken; we need to be able to comment on those things. So the model that's used in Canada is a separation between the regulator and the independent accident investigator.
Just on the first point you made, in terms of advocating for the changes that are necessary, we feel we've been very successful in advocating for safety improvements. Each of the recommendations is put on our website; the response is on our website, and our assessment of that response is there. This is something we've been doing recently, and we have found it to be very effective. The feedback has been quite good on that.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Have you ever studied the actual record of compliance versus non-compliance in any given year? We go back a couple of years for reports that had clear recommendations. Do you have any sense of what the percentage of compliance is? I'm thinking specifically of the carrier, but also in a broader sense, within each of the industrial sectors that we're talking about.
11:45 a.m.
Acting Chairman, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
I don't have the percentage, because it would depend on which period it was in, but I can tell you that the uptake on our recommendations is very high.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Okay, but let's take a period that you're aware of. What would be the percentage of compliance that you're...?
11:45 a.m.
Acting Chairman, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
If you wanted to provide us with the periods you're interested in, we could provide you with that information.
11:45 a.m.
Acting Chairman, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
Because it's not compiled in that manner, I don't have it with me today.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Okay.
I'd be interested in the last ten years. I'm sure my colleagues around the table would be as well.
If you were compiling those statistics, it would be important for us to be knowledgeable about what the compliance level is, whether we're talking about 75% or 95%, and depending on the sector. The latter would help us because we're doing a more in-depth study of safety issues in air, marine, and rail transportation. As my colleagues mentioned, we are concerned about the increase in rail accidents. So it would be helpful for us to know what the compliance level is in each of those sectors.
11:50 a.m.
Acting Chairman, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
Just to make sure that it's clear to me, are we talking about the reaction to, or the implementation of, our recommendations over the last ten years?
11:50 a.m.
Acting Chairman, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
Okay, we track that and have an annual reassessment, where we check and update the progress on each of the recommendations, so we don't have a problem providing you with that information.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Okay, thank you.
You also have the power to make recommendations for changes in regulations. For example, there is the issue of flight attendants, which is something that's extremely important to the members of the committee. We've had the government flag that they are interested in reducing the number of flight attendants on Canadian flights. We also have a TSB investigation in place right now on the Air France accident that happened last year, or the year before, at Pearson Airport.
So I'm interested in knowing whether, in this kind of case, the TSB would issue a recommendation. If they know their regulations are coming forward, and if there are concerns about safety, would the TSB issue a recommendation in that kind of case?
11:50 a.m.
Acting Chairman, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
Well, that's an ongoing investigation, so I can't talk to you about what may happen when the final report is released or when it comes to the board, because it's too soon to say. I can tell you that when we investigate the kind of accident like the Air France one at Pearson on August 2, 2005, the TSB always evaluates cabin safety and evacuations. We have the qualified staff to do that, and if any issue of concern is identified around those areas, we would communicate it right away.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
11:50 a.m.
Acting Chairman, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
We don't normally issue a preliminary report. We would issue safety information letters, interim recommendations, and those kinds of things. The report waits for the entire investigation to be completed.
But we haven't found, in any of our investigations thus far, issues relating to the number of cabin staff.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Okay. But since you have that ability to issue recommendations when there are changes to safety regulations, whether on the issue of flight attendants or the issue we're seeing now with Bill C-6, with SMS or safety management systems maybe giving more responsibility to the airlines to self-police, does the TSB make recommendations and are you consulted by the government? I'm asking more in a global sense. We're talking about specific cases, but in a more global sense, if there is legislation coming forward that lessens safety standards, is it not part of the purview of the TSB to issue recommendations?
