Transport Committee on April 28th, 2009

[Gerard Kennedy, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, I'm not appealing to the member opposite as chair. I respect that the chair's job is to mediate this meeting, not the parliamentary secretary.

I'm asking for an answer, and I ask it respectfully. With all respect, Mr. Chair, if through some power of understanding you discern an answer there, I'd be happy to go with that. I haven't got the answer. The only reason for my repeating the question is to ascertain an answer.

I think it's a fair question. I don't ask it disrespectfully. I'm using my job as a parliamentarian for my constituents. And this is the role I have for Parliament, as an opposition critic, to fulfill. This is the only place I get to fulfill it.

With the greatest of respect to Mr. Jean, I have the minister for a very few minutes, and this has been the only time since the program started. I think it's an appropriate question asked in an appropriate manner, and I rely on the chair to uphold my ability to do that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

I'm going to rule that it's not a point of order, but I do think the minister should have adequate time to answer the question.

From the chair's perspective, the answer I am hearing is that he is responsible to report to Parliament in June with those numbers, and he has said that very clearly.

I'll allow questions to continue.

[Gerard Kennedy, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Okay. Mr. Chair.

I'd also like to ask, then, whether you have created any jobs with the green infrastructure fund as of yet that you can share with this committee.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

That's a five-year program, and we'll be reporting to Parliament in June about that.

One of the things we have done at Infrastructure Canada is put an edict in place. We have all hands on deck to work with provinces and municipalities on project approvals, to reduce the red tape--

[Gerard Kennedy, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

With the greatest respect--

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

--and the administration. I'm not going to pull people off to report on a day-to-day basis.

Parliament passed our budget and expressed confidence in the government. Then Parliament asked that we report back in March, which we did. And then they asked that we report back in June, and we're committed to doing just that.

[Gerard Kennedy, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Minister--

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

June is in a matter of a few weeks, and--

[Gerard Kennedy, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

With all respect--

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

--we'll be doing that.

[Gerard Kennedy, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, it's a simple question, and I guess there is no simple answer.

I'll forgo the community components fund, as I anticipate it will be the same answer.

Parliament has every right to seek due diligence on dollars, and part of the due diligence, Mr. Chair, is having the minister at the committee.

Mr. Minister, I'd also like to ask if you can tell us where you are in terms of the recreation fund. We understood you were to profile it and then put that out, with guidelines and applications and so on, and then get that out to your regional development agencies.

I am wondering if you could table today the criteria for the recreation fund and any documents that support its progress. It's also a fairly sizeable fund that has been put out there. I understood your department told us in briefing that they were going to profile it and then when the rules were established put it out to the regional development agencies. Can you table any documents today to show us where that's at?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

We'd be pleased to respond through the chair to that request. It's quite reasonable.

[Gerard Kennedy, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

And is that fund ready to take applications? Is that where it's at today?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

It's being administrated, but we came up with the overview and the policy parameters. It's now in the hands of the regional economic development agencies, which would be very pleased to provide all the information you requested.

[Gerard Kennedy, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Minister, you spoke of your people working quite hard. Certainly, from each contact I've had with them, there's every evidence of that.

But I just want to ask you how you see your staff being able to do their due diligence on this particular task, which is more than double the projected spending and perhaps triple the actual spending that you achieved, but at least double, with roughly the same amount of staff. In the main estimates you speak of having 19 extra staff. There's a different article in The Hill Times today, but here you're seeking 19 staff compared to two years ago, and I'm wondering how you are able to get the job done and what corners may have to be cut if you don't have adequate staff.

If there is a plan that you could share with us on the deployment to make sure that we get due diligence for all these extra dollars with no increase in staff, that would be very helpful.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

We are getting additional resources with respect to staff at Infrastructure Canada. We have come forward with our five-point action plan with respect to reducing red tape, which can be an awfully heavy paper burden, a heavy administrative burden on my department.

I think one of the approaches we take--and I don't apologize for in some respects being a provincialist--whether it comes to our friends in the Bloc Québécois, or whether it comes to, for example, the province in which I represent a riding in the House of Commons, is that it is not the federal government's job to micromanage the provinces.

Premier McGuinty brought forward to the first ministers conference a binder of some five or six inches of a business case they were required to do with respect to Infrastructure Canada and the federal rules and red tape. The Province of Ontario does not work for me. They do not work for Infrastructure Canada. Our job is to be a funding partner.

I think we can have a fair balance between the gas tax, of which I know you were a big advocate, where you just give the money as a blank cheque, versus having two years' worth of paperwork and administration where we try to micromanage things that are not our responsibility. So I think we're coming up with a reasonable balance.

What we want to do is identify projects in concert with municipalities and provinces. We want to ensure that they eligible and we want to respect jurisdiction.

I have no intention of trying to micromanage George Smitherman and Infrastructure Ontario, because I think they're quite capable of doing it themselves, and they are responsible and accountable to their provincial legislature, to their provincial auditor general. They're not responsible to this Parliament. They're not responsible to me. They're not responsible to the Auditor General of Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Okay, Monsieur Laframboise.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Minister, my next question has to do with infrastructure. I agree with you: It took a long time before Quebec would negotiate with you. The agreement is now signed. So it would be normal for the jobs to be created in the next few months. The agreement with Quebec had to be signed, and now it is.

In addition, you signed a letter with the president of the Canadian Federation of Municipalities. It was addressed to all of the cities, and in it, you mentioned that Ottawa had programs that were available to the cities. That letter was addressed to all of Canada. In Quebec, however, under some programs, cities apply to the Ministère des Affaires municipales. Is there a way to know which programs municipalities will have to apply to Quebec for and which ones they will have to apply to Ottawa for? Are they identified separately, Mr. Ranger?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I have to tell you that the president of the Federation of Canadian Municipalities is a Quebecker from the same riding as the premier of Quebec. We kept in mind Quebec law and the fact that municipalities are under provincial jurisdiction. I already mentioned that during the question period and during a previous appearance before this committee.

In my opinion, it is absolutely essential to work with Quebec's Minister of Municipal Affairs, the Minister of Finance, the President of the Treasury Board, who was in charge of the infrastructure file, and the Prime Minister's Office. We work well with all of them, and we respect provincial jurisdiction. Of course, Quebec's municipalities say that we have money and programs in the budget for them, but I am certain that they kept Quebec law very much in mind in that respect.

I am not someone who likes to spend a lot of time and energy on administrative agreements. We worked very hard with Quebec, we signed an agreement, and we have an agreement that we can use for each of the projects. The new one was almost exactly the same as the last, so we were able to cut through some red tape. With these new initiatives, we can move much more quickly, but I must say that I am pleased with the commitment that Quebec and Canada have shown in terms of moving things along. We have also seen that we can invest in federally regulated infrastructure, without Quebec's support, even if just in a harbour. We will probably only do so in the case of harbours.

My goal, my top priority, is to do as much as we can with Quebec and its municipalities, because that is how we will create the most jobs. A few Bloc Québécois members have told me about projects in their municipalities. So, occasionally, they are happy to share their priorities with me, and that is a good thing; it is their job. I know, however, that I must work with the provincial government because it has to support the project; otherwise, we cannot get things done.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Before the agreement was signed, we recommended to our members that they send you their projects. And that gave you an idea of the vision for Quebec, and that was good. But now, we have an agreement....

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Good. I am always open to working with all of the members in Canada.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Since the agreement was signed, things have been going well in Quebec. The municipalities are happy. Keep it up.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I found that things were moving along faster.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Yes, they are.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Everywhere.