Transport Committee on April 28th, 2009

[Gerard Kennedy, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

But again, Mr. Minister, I'm asking for a reasonable accountability here; that is, how much money have you promised? How much money is tied down with actual agreements? There is a big difference, we've found. Then finally, how many projects are actually under way? I think that's a delivery, an actual accomplishment.

Minister, I simply want to ask, are you saying you can't or won't provide that?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I've provided everything we've gotten. We have 13 agreements with every province and territory under Building Canada. I think for most of them we have federal-provincial-territorial base funding agreements. Anything the committee requires--

[Gerard Kennedy, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Actual projects, Mr. Minister--are you prepared to provide us the details--

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

We're prepared to provide everything we have.

[Gerard Kennedy, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

--a detailed actual project list?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

We're certainly pleased to get you everything we have on the shelf.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

I have to go to M. Godin.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I'm not going to take people off the job ahead of the June deadline, but we'd be very pleased to provide you everything we have available.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Monsieur Gaudet.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Hello, gentlemen.

Minister, during a previous appearance before this committee, you mentioned that each of the three levels of government has to contribute one third. Since small communities have less money than larger ones, I had asked you whether the federal government could contribute 50%, the province, 35%, and the municipality, 15%.

I then talked to an economist, who told me that of the 35%, the federal government received 18% in taxes and the province,17%. Could you change your distribution method? Instead of each level of government contributing a third, how about 40-40-20 or 50-35-15, in order to help smaller communities. Remember that it is always the same people who pay. Whether it is a loan to the federal, provincial or municipal government, it always comes out of the same pockets.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I'm pleased to report to you many provinces--for example, Newfoundland, Ontario, British Columbia--are paying more than their third, because it's a provincial jurisdiction, and we respect provincial jurisdiction.

I am sure that we received requests for more money than we had to give and that municipalities had the money to pay their third of the cost and were willing to take action. If the provinces want to pay more than a third, it is up to them. It is within their jurisdiction to do so, and we respect that.

My goal is to create as many jobs as possible. We all know that the federal government has no money. It had to run a deficit to achieve that goal, just like Quebec. We set up a funding program to help municipalities fund their projects. That is another example of how we are trying to work with municipalities.

Many small and large municipalities across Canada are willing to contribute their third. For those that cannot, the gas rebate, the GST rebate and the loans granted by a federal government agency are designed to help. It is under the province's jurisdiction. In British Columbia, the provincial government was willing to do more for municipalities with less than 15,000 inhabitants, which was good for them.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

We'll go to Mr. Bevington.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Going back to the northern and rural communities that have capacity challenges, funding limitations, and a limited construction season, we need the economic stimulus, as well, throughout those regions.

Shouldn't you consider looking at a special stimulus fund to aid these communities right across the whole country to make sure that they get a proportion of the stimulus funding that is going out at this time?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I'll tell you that our big cities--Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, Vancouver--are tremendously important. Big municipalities have huge needs. But I can tell you, and I underline the fact, that small municipalities in rural Canada and northern Canada have important needs as well, and we are very committed to ensuring that there's an equitable distribution of funds.

I can tell you that when it comes to the north, I will put our Prime Minister's record with respect to infrastructure in northern Canada up against anyone, any government, at any time in this country's history. You know--

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Well then, maybe I can--

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Let's follow the leadership of John Diefenbaker, and I think any independent analysis--

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Oh, I know that.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

--would say that up north there is so much infrastructure money, they can't spend it fast enough.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Okay, then perhaps you could take a look at the Mackenzie Valley Highway, which is a project that is really required in northern Canada. Would you consider investing in the development of that highway, say perhaps with a project that is shovel-ready, like the Great Bear River bridge?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

We want to make an equitable distribution of resources. I think if you look at the north, it certainly got more than an equitable share. It's worth investing in. It's important. It's a priority for the Prime Minister, and it's a priority for me. I think that when you look at the infrastructure spending we're doing in the three territories, particularly, it will compare very favourably.

I have Premier Fentie lobbying hard for a green infrastructure project. They have a great project that will reduce greenhouse gas emissions and reduce air pollution with the electricity grid in Yukon.

If you look at what we're doing in the Northwest Territories on infrastructure, I'm meeting with the minister, I think later this week or next. We have a great relationship with Premier Roland. If you look at the new government in Nunavut, it's moving aggressively.

I appreciate not just the construction season being shorter but also that you have to get the materials there with different forms of transport, and we'll obviously take a common sense approach to dealing with any specific concerns.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you, Minister, both ministers, for attending today with your staff. I appreciate all the input you've given us today.

I think we're just going to take a brief two-minute break while our guests depart, and then I have a question with regard to Thursday's meeting.

We'll recess for two minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you. We're back very briefly.

I want to quickly review the upcoming schedule.

I do know there are some committees that are not meeting on Thursday, to allow members to travel to their national convention. I'm looking for direction from this committee for the Thursday meeting. We do have witnesses who have been contacted. We're waiting to advise them. They will come Thursday or they will come another day if we so choose. I put that out there. What is the will of the committee? Are there any thoughts?

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

If I may, Mr. Chair, I think we should hear first from Mr. Volpe, his position on it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Okay.