Transport Committee on Feb. 10th, 2009

[Louis Ranger, Deputy Minister, Department of Transport]

As Mr. Merrifield said, last year.... The government is committing a lot money to the corporation, you're right: $516 million last year and another $407 million in the budget that was announced a couple of weeks ago. We can ask the corporation to report back on where that money is going. We know exactly where it's going. A good part is going to track, building a third track, both on the Kingston subdivision between Montreal and Toronto and also on the line between Ottawa and Toronto. VIA will have express trains that will run at three hours and 30 minutes, which is pretty impressive. They have told us they will increase the traffic by a set amount, and we will monitor them against that.

We will be pleased to provide you with a breakdown of where that money is going.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Could you send that to me, and I'll see that it's distributed.

Monsieur Laframboise.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

I'd like to conclude with the issue of VIA Rail. As opposed to the Liberals I believe that these are good investments. By increasing the frequency of trains, we are increasing the ridership, which is beneficial for the environmental as well.

You stated that the new investments would be used to fund line extensions or the construction of a third line. Will there be investments of that order in Quebec, in the segment that crosses Quebec, or the Montreal-Quebec corridor and the lines that link Montreal with the rest of the province?

[Louis Ranger]

Certainly. Major work is planned in the Alexandria subdivision, between Côteau and Montreal. We can give you information in this regard.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

I would appreciate that.

Mr. Baird, this brings me back to the first question on infrastructure that I wanted to put to you. There is a request for an increase in the supplementary estimates, but in the year's expenditures there were to have been investments of some $3 billion in infrastructure. Of that sum, $1.9 billion have been spent. In other words, $1.1 billion still has not been spent. I know that some agreements have not yet been concluded, among others with the Province of Quebec.

Can you provide us with some details? Are things moving in your department? Before the holidays, you had made a nice passionate speech, stating that this file would move forward. Will the agreement with the Province of Quebec be concluded?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you for your question. We met with Minister Jérôme-Forget at a meeting in Montreal. We discussed the large investments during a few hours, as well as the plan we wanted to prepare together. For the smaller projects we cooperate with Minister Normandeau. We were ready to sign an agreement. I think she sent it back. I signed the agreement and she sent it back with a few changes. We want this agreement to go forward as quickly as possible. We had a list. Both levels of government are ready to give their support to it. We respect provincial jurisdiction. We have to work with the provinces because most projects fall under their jurisdiction. I hope that you will be seeing the announcements in the next few weeks.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Chantiers Canada is mentioned here. With regard to the new announcements you have just made which amount to $4 billion, will there be a new agreement between Quebec and the other provinces?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I decided that we would not have time to negotiate an agreement with each province and territory. However, we will work on this after the budget is passed. We will have the money on April 1 and we will be ready to work in the same way with Quebec. We will be working directly with the two ministers responsible for infrastructure. As regards their plan, an important list of projects is ready. Of course we also have our own interests. As Minister of Transport some projects are a priority for me. We are ready and I hope that we will act very quickly. Chantiers Canada is almost ready. That is my highest priority. I hope that an announcement will be made in the course of the next few weeks. In light of the elections in Quebec it is very important that it follow the other provinces and territories. I met with the minister who was re-appointed after January 1. We would be ready to act in the course of the next few weeks.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Could you tell us about some of the projects, among those you support, that are planned for Quebec?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

As former Minister of the Environment, I strongly support the projects that aim to protect the environment. Water quality is one of my priorities. Public transit is another example of projects that are favourable to the environment. I wear another hat. Ports are important, as are small airports as well for economic development. I examine the priorities. Fairness is a very important factor. We don't want to spend everything in the same place. There are many regions in Quebec and I am aware of that, but I'm also aware that because of provincial areas of jurisdiction, we must work with the provinces.

As a former provincial minister and member, I know that the provincial governments do not work for us. They are all accountable to their legislature, their attorney general and their citizens, but not to me. Given this important economic problem, it is very important that we respect not only their areas of jurisdiction but also the fact that the larger part of the responsibility for this project falls upon them.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

There remain the $500 million for community sports equipment. In the budget, you seem to suggest that it would be incumbent upon the Economic Development Agency for the regions of Quebec to negotiate that amount.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

The rules are a little different. This isn't entirely for hockey. Other fields are admissible.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Are you going to be dealing with Quebec or will you negotiate directly with the cities?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Ah, but it is important that we work with Quebec because of the provincial jurisdiction. A law was passed by the National Assembly and we respect it. Today, Minister Verner announced assistance for Shannon. Of course we asked for the province's support and I think there will be a meeting with cabinet to obtain its support for that request. If we work with the municipalities, we have to do the same thing.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

I saw that some $2.5 million were being allocated to the return of lands to farmers in Mirabel. Do you have any dates? Are there any timeframes? Is the agreement on the value of the lands ready?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I signed a large number of agreements a month and a half ago. I will put the question to my deputy minister.

[Louis Ranger]

This is not cheap. We had to make significant expenditures for surveys and prepare legal documents in order to make certain lands available. I will give you the exact dates involved. We now have all of the authorizations, i.e. that of treasury board, cabinet, and so on. I even created a team in Mirabel to manage the lands. When the applications come in, we will be ready to act quickly. As you know, the former owners will have the right to the value of the land with a discount. I will get you the exact date on which the value of the land is to be set.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Do you have a final date?

[Louis Ranger]

We are open for business.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

If you would like a briefing on the whole Mirabel project, we are willing to provide one for you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you.

Mr. Bevington.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. And Minister Merrifield, it's good to see you here.

I see that you did bring up the issue of the Navigable Waters Protection Act, Mr. Minister, so I guess I feel confident in talking about it now. As an issue, I must say that I'm a bit surprised and shocked to see it in the budget implementation bill. I fully expected that we would see an important bill like that back in front of this committee for debate and discussion, but that's not going to happen.

I see this as an abrogation of federal responsibility in this area. Certainly the provinces would be alongside for that, but that's simply not a reason to give up federal powers in this area. Some of the justification that's been given for this bill: it can already be accommodated within existing legislation, or the preliminary screening process that is available for small projects on small rivers is not an encumbrance to get projects forward. But this bill really just turns over the very important responsibility that the federal government has, or gives the minister the ability to turn over that responsibility.

I'd like you to perhaps take a minute or two to justify moving this bill ahead in the fashion that you have.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I'll say a number of things. One, I think it's part of infrastructure, it's part of our economic action plan. We want to see things happen; if there were an easy way to make things happen, it would have been done a long time ago.

I took the opportunity to meet with every territorial government and every provincial government, and with municipal representatives from every part of the country. They to a person, virtually every single one, mentioned this as being a major barrier to infrastructure development. I believe one premier called it the biggest job killer in his province.

I certainly saw the good work that the committee had done in the previous Parliament. I think we're facing a significant economic challenge. While it started in the United States, it has certainly arrived in Canada, and Canadians want action.

As I said, there was virtual unanimity that it was a major problem. A good number of folks wanted us to just repeal the whole thing outright. I think we took a balanced approach. We need that to get infrastructure projects moving, and that's why it's part of the budget bill.

We'd be very pleased to offer you or any member of the committee a full briefing on what's been done. I certainly welcome any comments and feedback, but we are looking for speed. I don't hide that or apologize for it.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Certainly a briefing would do me a lot of good in the timeframe that's available for that.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

You can have one tomorrow morning.