Evidence of meeting #2 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was budget.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Gerard Kennedy Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON
So none of those delays come from procedures that you might want to fix or change within your own ministry?
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
I think we've got to speed up the negotiation of contribution agreements, because I think they're too long. I think we try to substitute our judgment for the provinces'. In my response to Mr. Laframboise's question, I think I've spoken to this, and I can send you copies of the Hansard from a previous environment committee.
The approach I'm taking in working with the provinces--the Government of Ontario in this case--is that the provinces do not work for the federal government. If they've got a project they're requesting us to partner with them on, we're a financial partner; we're not a management partner. We're not interested in going in and repeating all of the due diligence that they do. So we've come forward with a policy that we are going to be streamlining contribution agreements and that all invoices will be paid within 30 days. I could write the cheque today to the Government of Ontario and to every single province for the full amount, but not a single job will be created and not a single shovel will get in the ground.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Gerard Kennedy Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON
So that's your story, that it's all on their hands and none of it is on yours? So you've talked to municipalities and you've talked to provinces and there will be no problems with anything in your ministry? This is your chance to share with us and tell us how we're going to get the rest of it, but that's what you're saying?
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
I just explained the problems as I saw them. You summarized it rather differently.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
No, I didn't say they are other people's problems. In fairness, I said there are bureaucratic problems on both sides, both the provincial and the federal sides. I am undertaking to cut back that red tape for us. I'm undertaking the change in the Navigable Waters Protection Act so that projects can be sped up. I'm undertaking to streamline the environmental procedures so that it can be sped up. I'm undertaking to streamline the Fisheries Act so that can be sped up. I don't know--
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Gerard Kennedy Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON
I don't know how many of those are red herrings, Minister, but you've got to give us some specifics here. We're parliamentarians. We deserve to see the specifics on where the money is, where it is at now, and where it is going to go. And if you want to give us a briefing tomorrow morning, we'll take it.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
There's not a single invoice that's more than 30 days late. I'll give you an example. We announced the Spadina subway expansion almost two years ago. We could have given them a cheque for a billion dollars then, and they are only breaking ground now. So as soon as they break ground and get in invoices, they'll be paid within 30 days. It's a guarantee, they'll be paid within 30 days.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
If you wanted me to give invoices for projects that haven't started, that would be an interesting--
February 10th, 2009 / 4:20 p.m.
Bloc
Roger Gaudet Bloc Montcalm, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Minister, the AMT, the Agence métropolitaine de transport de Montréal (Montreal metropolitan transportation agency), has a commuter train project in the works for Montreal East, Repentigny, Legardeur, Mascouche, Terrebonne and an area to the north of Lanaudière, which is in my riding. You said that you had preferences with regard to the $4 billion envelope.
Are commuter trains part of your preferences in Montreal? Is your department holding any discussions with the AMT?
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
The priority for me is economic growth as well as the quality of life of Canadian men and women and the environment. In the course of the next few weeks I will, I believe, have a meeting with the Montreal public transit agency. This is certainly a matter that I will discuss with Ms. Jérôme-Forget. This is an area of municipal jurisdiction and we respect these boundaries. Of course, a large number of projects to further public transit will be receiving aid, but within the framework of the Fonds Chantiers Canada, $4 million in new money was announced in the budget, and two things are essential. Firstly, it must be a new project. If we are only replacing federal money with municipal money or replacing provincial money with federal funds, there will be no increase in job creation. Secondly, we need the stimulus to take hold in the next 25 months. That will be essential, unless there are several $10-million projects for the municipalities and public transit associations everywhere in Quebec and in Canada. This is a priority I have made my own on behalf of the government, but also as Minister of Transport.
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
Roger Gaudet Bloc Montcalm, QC
I have another question. Whether we are talking about Quebec, Ontario, Alberta or Vancouver, everywhere there are small communities. Would it be possible for the federal government, rather than contributing 33%, to go to 60%? The provincial government could contribute 30% or 40%, and the municipal contribution could be only 10%. Could this fit into your plans?
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
We have about $2 billion to allow municipalities to borrow a third of the money. I am convinced that a large number of municipalities will come up with that third. The problem will be, rather, to choose among the municipalities that will be ready. Perhaps all municipalities will not be able to participate, but if one no longer wants the money, another one will.
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
Roger Gaudet Bloc Montcalm, QC
I am from the municipal field, I was a mayor for 12 years. I can guarantee you that there is money, but the same people are footing the bill, whether in Ottawa, provincially or municipally. The municipal taxpayer also pays federal and provincial income tax; it is always the same taxpayer paying. Since the government is investing money in infrastructure, it might be good for it to increase its share and decrease the part to be provided by the communities, the first payers.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
Roger Gaudet Bloc Montcalm, QC
I am not talking about municipalities such as Toronto or Montreal, I am talking about small municipalities, small communities. There are still many that have populations of less than 1000 residents.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
That is one of the reasons why we created a 2-billion-dollar program allowing them to borrow.
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
That is true, but the same thing applies to the federal government. We borrowed money which allows us to help the municipalities. We have to borrow too.
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
Roger Gaudet Bloc Montcalm, QC
I agree with you, Mr. Baird, the federal level borrows, the municipal level borrows, everybody borrows everywhere.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
If we work together, if the federal government invests a dollar, if the provincial level invests a dollar and if the municipal government invests a dollar, we can go three times further, three times faster. If we must reduce the municipalities' contribution to 10% we won't be able to bring as many projects to fruition.
