Evidence of meeting #22 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was airports.
A recording is available from Parliament.
June 2nd, 2009 / 4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I have some questions for you, Mr. Rosen. In your presentation, you stated that the City of Kingston is aware of the SCNF report and will consider joining the group of cities supporting it, under certain conditions. What might those conditions be?
4:10 p.m.
Mayor, City of Kingston
I said Kingston would join that group of municipalities that are sponsoring the SNCF report. I did speak with the mayor of Quebec City, Régis Labeaume, about the possibility. The report at this point is a first report. It does not consider Kingston as a stop or even near the line that the report proposes. Mayor Labeaume indicated that if Kingston were to join and make a financial contribution to the cost of the study, the question of Kingston's access to the line would be considered. I would like to have a stronger commitment than a consideration.
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
If I understand correctly, Mr. Facette, the Canadian Airports Council supports high-speed rail, but under certain conditions. These include the removal of airport rents, the AIF, or airport improvement fees, and probably the fees paid to NAV Canada. If all of these fees were eliminated, you would be prepared to support this initiative. Do you have any additional conditions?
4:10 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Airports Council
I wouldn't go so far as to say that we support the initiative now being discussed because several questions have either not been raised or remain unanswered.
If taxpayer dollars are invested in high-speed rail, that might be an opportunity to eliminate some of our fees. Our industry is alone in paying fees to the federal government. The money goes directly to Transport Canada. If the rail industry receives an injection of public funds, then this could be an opportunity for our industry. That's all we're saying.
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
Is this your first appearance before a committee to discuss high-speed rail, or have you already made your views known?
4:10 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Airports Council
This is our first such appearance.
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
I see.
Will some of your members or some of the airlines also be making representations to the committee?
4:10 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Airports Council
Our members are the airports, not the airlines. We are the voice of airports in Montreal, Quebec City and Toronto, to name a few.
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
You charge airport improvement fees, not only to users, but to the airlines as well, to cover cost shortfalls.
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
So then, if you can save money, your goal would be to lower the fees charged to airlines. Is that correct?
4:10 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Airports Council
Yes, that would be our expectation.
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
The objective is to increase passenger traffic.
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
Have you looked at the situation in other countries around the world?
4:10 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Airports Council
We are only just beginning to do so. We have yet to do a comprehensive study.
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
Mr. McSweeney, I've noticed that autoroute 40 in Montreal has been resurfaced, mostly with concrete. Concrete is supposed to be more resistant and to last longer.
Some of the witnesses have said that concerns over the tracks have to do with our climate, in particular our cold weather. Will the concrete react as well in cold weather? Has its performance already been analysed elsewhere? Japan's climate is different from ours. Has concrete been tested under extremely cold conditions, or is that not a problem?
4:15 p.m.
Vice-President, Industry Affairs, Cement Association of Canada
We've all driven on Highway 40 or on the Autoroute Ville-Marie and we know what asphalt is like, don't we? I can tell you that concrete highways are the way of the future. In Toronto, for example, Highway 407 is completely concrete. The Queen Elizabeth Way is completely concrete with an asphalt overlay. The reason they use concrete is that it lasts 40 to 50 years. It is not subject to the potholes that you see with asphalt. It's very reflective; you can have 22% fewer light standards, which saves electricity. It is 3% to 7% more fuel efficient for trucks.
When oil was down to $20 to $25 a barrel, asphalt was very cheap. Now that oil is between $60 and $150 a barrel, concrete highways are getting closer to being competitive in price with asphalt highways--build it once, build it right. It may cost slightly more, but it is adaptable to our climate. The transportation advisory council, which works with all of the transportation ministers across Canada, is actively looking at this. So is the federal transportation minister. In Quebec alone, between federal and provincial funding, we're going to spend about $66 billion on redoing bridges and highways. I know that our industry will be making the point that it's cost-effective. If you only look at a five- to seven-year period, asphalt is going to win, time and again. But if you look at a 35- to 50-year period, concrete will win over and over again and provide a much more sustainable product. After all, asphalt is a petrochemical and a fossil fuel. We should be looking to use other resources besides fossil fuels.
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
Regarding the study that the provinces of Ontario and Quebec and the federal government are currently updating, you seem to imply in your presentation that you have not been consulted about the route alignment. There is agreement in Quebec on the proposed route alignment.
You would like the City of Kingston to be included as a location for the high speed rail system. I support you and agree with you that the rail line should pass through your city. Are you saying that no discussions took place in Ontario to decide the definitive route?
4:15 p.m.
Mayor, City of Kingston
Not that I am aware of. I know there was a report. I'm not sure if it was from this committee, but there was a route that the federal government had studied--and I'm not sure if it went as far as a proposal--that was a direct route, some years ago, back in the nineties, I believe. It went from Ottawa directly to Toronto. The route would have passed by Kingston somewhere in the neighbourhood of Sharbot Lake, which is about 80 kilometres north of Kingston. We want to make sure that this is not the preferred route. As I said, the costs of that route are substantially more. The environmental assessment will hold up construction on that route for a substantially longer period of time.
And where you have the right-of-way owned by the province at this time--not only Highway 401 but Ottawa could also use highways 417 and 416 as a right-of-way for the high-speed rail connection--it just makes sense to keep it south in a more conducive construction climate.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Facette, I didn't get your presentation, but I've been interested in the question of deferred capital on airport spending if we go ahead with another transportation source in the corridor. You say you've expanded considerably over the last 10 or 15 years since the last fast-rail study was done. What was the value of the system, not just the replacement but the expansion of the system?
