Transport Committee on June 4th, 2009

[Paul Côté]

While there was some conclusion, I was not, Mr. Volpe, part of that particular study. That's why Mr. Gravelle and Gerry are here. They were involved in this directly. André certainly was. And if you want to question us on the specific findings of that study, I will have to refer those questions to André, who has been part of that more than I have, at this time.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

What we're interested in--or at least I can speak for myself--is whether VIA identified an optimum location for a dedicated line. Do you recall whether you did or not?

[Paul Côté]

Did we identify a corridor?

[André Gravelle]

We did identify a corridor for high-speed rail. At the time, we examined several options, essentially the same options that have been picked up by the studies that have followed.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Monsieur Gravelle, if I'm not mistaken, as a result of both that study and the others in which you participated, VIA Rail began to do some land assembly, or at least began to establish some rights to lands were they to come on the market. How far did that go?

[André Gravelle]

Well, the Montreal and Ottawa subdivision of Canadian Pacific, which was abandoned in the early 1980s, was obtained by VIA Rail and is still the property of VIA Rail.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Are any other large segments of the rail network that you acquired currently used for freight?

[André Gravelle]

Well, yes, but they are not necessarily on a high-speed rail route. Some subdivisions that were being abandoned were actually acquired by VIA Rail.

[Paul Côté]

For instance, Mr. Volpe, we acquired the Alexandria subdivision, a portion of the track between Montreal and Ottawa, after the ice storm. CN, who owned it at the time, were not interested in investing in and restoring it, so we actually purchased it at that time.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

But in a high-speed rather than higher-speed rail scenario, this would suggest that you already have some of the infrastructure available--infrastructure meaning land, as opposed to improvements on the land.

[Paul Côté]

Once again on that subject, one of their conclusions of the studies that are being looked at right now, I suppose, will be on the routing. I can't presume what routing they will pick. But if they were to use existing routing, let's say between Montreal and Ottawa, to stay on subject, and it would be over the Alexandria subdivision, clearly we own that land. However, the condition of this infrastructure compared to the requirements of high-speed--and all one needs to do is travel on this line and count the number of farm crossings and level-grade crossings to realize this--is not adequate.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Yes, we understand that, Mr. Côté, but I think the very first thing is that we have to acquire the rights to the land in order to improve it for a dedicated line.

All of this has to do with cost. Some of it is going to be imputed on cost, and some of it is already going to be available. So it's going to be available to either an operator or a consortium of operators. There have been those who have questioned the ability of VIA Rail to both build--i.e., develop--the rail line and the stations associated with it and then operate the final product.

I imagine this is kind of a lob question to you, but people are going to question the expertise available to VIA to actually build and operate such a function. Aside from the fact that Ms. Watts' organization came to you for information and some expertise, do you really have the expertise to operate a 1,200-kilometre dedicated line that would then be connected with higher-speed and conventional-speed feeder lines?

[Paul Côté]

We've been in this business for 30 years. We now operate a certain portion of the infrastructure. We own the Alexandria subdivision and we own a portion in southwestern Ontario. We dispatch it, we maintain it, we market it, and we serve people on it. We built our stations, renovated our stations, and built technology information systems to serve customers and so on.

Everybody's entitled to his or her opinion. When and if the call ever comes from the government for us to position ourselves in that initiative called high-speed and/or any other variations, I would hope that we'd be called upon to intervene on a level playing field. We will make our skills and our expertise known, and hopefully we'll convince people that we have the ability. I'm convinced we do.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

There are some contributors behind you here who will appear before the committee a little later on, both on a systems control side and on a management side--or indeed on a partnership side from the Airports Council, or at least one of the airports. They might be really interested in hearing how we develop that particular relationship. I suspect they'll have a view on how to build that consortium.

You've talked to them, I guess, right?

[Paul Côté]

We haven't necessarily talked about this particular subject, but on the subject of intermodal integration, we've been champions of that. In the context of what we do, we've had many discussions with Mr. Langis from Orléans Express; I know that he was here as well. We've had discussions with Greyhound. We've had discussions with some airports--in Montreal, for instance, on the link between the airport and downtown and how we could integrate the proposed shuttle, if it ever sees the light of day, in our operations in the context of intercity mandates in the current context.

So yes, we will; we were just talking before this session. Obviously there will be a need for that.

I do believe, as I mentioned in my remarks--I also read this in the transcripts from some of the people appearing in front of your committee--that the key to all of this is not to look at it as stand-alone but in an integrated fashion, not only between high-speed rail and conventional rail but other modes as well, including air, bus, car, and highway systems. I believe that very strongly.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Merci.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Go ahead, Mr. Laframboise.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Taking up where Mr. Volpe left off, one of the two studies you conducted on high-speed rail focused on VIA Fast. Have there been other studies?

[Paul Côté]

Our most recent study focused on VIA Fast, but that was not a high speed rail system project. The trains would have travelled at higher than conventional speeds, but this would not have been considered high-speed rail service.

The unique feature of that project is that trains can use existing infrastructures, unlike high-speed trains. We have always thought that new or very different infrastructure would be required for high-speed rail service.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Let us talk about additional funding. The government has awarded VIA a little over $100 million, as you mentioned earlier. Are you in the process of developing or implementing VIA Fast service?

[Paul Côté]

Further to this injection of capital, we are adding some features to our system based on the VIA Fast concept. We have selected the project components that can be implemented today. We are gradually identifying zones in which the speed and frequency of trains can be increased and the tracks can be shared between freight and passenger trains, to facilitate traffic flow.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

You stated earlier that you were open to the idea of providing us with all of the information available. Could we possibly have a copy of the VIA Fast study? We requested one from Transport Canada and were told by officials that VIA Rail's authorization was needed to release the study to us.

[Paul Côté]

VIA Rail must authorize the study's release. I am prepared to approve the committee's request, but the study does contain some confidential data and permission to disclose that information must be obtained before I can give you a copy of the study. The report was drawn up with that understanding with our partners, who include CN and CP. Some of the data is confidential.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

I'd like you to look into that, because at the time, the Liberal government was of two minds. I'm interested in finding out the source of their discord. Today, the Liberals seem more united, but at the time, they were divided.

[Paul Côté]

I can answer the first part of your question.

I'm am prepared to make some inquiries to see if the study can be turned over to the committee. We will coordinate this with the committee or with Transport Canada.