Transport Committee on Oct. 21st, 2009

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here today.

I've had occasion to spend some time in Gatineau Park, and it is a very beautiful part of the country. You're very privileged to be there.

One of the things that you talked about today and that I've heard from all three of you in your discussions here is cooperation. I've noticed in this presentation you wrote about support for NCC stewardship of Gatineau Park. You talked about the association supporting federal, provincial, and municipal government rules and regulations intended to protect the park. In the next paragraph, you say you fully support the NCC's continued management, and again, further on you say, “Through understanding and cooperation, we can all work together to ensure the welfare of the Gatineau Park and the continued harmony between public and private use”.

I guess my question is this. Could you let us know how the Municipality of Chelsea and the NCC are cooperating on matters? You've talked about having written an MOU that's in place. Could you expand on some of those areas where you see that cooperation happening? How is that relationship building?

[Jean Perras]

Well, for example, for the last five years we've had a program that was created by the municipality, called H20 Chelsea. On the different lakes and rivers in Chelsea, we've had volunteers on weekends testing the water. All of those results have been shared with the NCC for Kingsmere Lake, for Meech Lake, for Gatineau River, and so on and so forth. That was part of the MOU, but we had started it in advance. The MOU just came and confirmed that.

Another one is a new program we created a year and a half ago, called Nature Chelsea. The objective of this program is to ensure that we know exactly the state of our biodiversity, both fauna and flora. We know the NCC has quite a good collection of species. They know about the species, so since the beginning of this new program we've been sharing information, database, to make sure both sides understand. We're going to share that with the ACRE, which is the regional Chelsea environmental group. The University of Ottawa has also said it would play a role in transferring science and knowledge between the NCC and Chelsea. So we've been quite active and we want to continue making that.

Also, I'll put on another hat. I'm the warden of the regional government, the MRC des Collines-de-l’Outaouais, and with our police officers we patrol the park when need be. For example, when there are break-ins in cars at Blanchet Beach, our police officers will come in and try to figure out what happened and so on. Those are some of the responsibilities that we have and that we share with the NCC, because they also have the RCMP patrolling the place. Since our police officers are so close to the park on a daily basis and sometimes the RCMP are not necessarily there—let's say, nights and weekends—we end up helping with the patrol of the park.

It's the same thing for our fire trucks. If there is something up at the Mackenzie King Estate during the winter, our fire trucks are the first ones there to make sure nothing goes wrong. So we do cooperate on a daily basis. We share information. We share knowledge. We share science. This MOU and the Gatineau Park master plan are right in line, I think, with those approaches.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you.

I'm sorry, I'll have to cut you off there.

We'll go to Monsieur Proulx.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Monsieur Perras--and Monsieur Garand and Mr. MacTavish can certainly answer too--I'm referring to a letter that was addressed to the NCC back on April 26, 2004. It talks about the closing of Blanchet Beach and so on. It was brought up in a conversation a little while ago. Must I understand that this is outdated? I don't mean the letter, I mean the request.

[Jean Perras]

The municipality didn't write that letter. The lake association.....

We now have a system to control traffic and circulation to make sure that in an emergency, the fire trucks, the ambulance, and the police officers can get to the end of Meech Lake on time.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Okay.

Mr. Garand, it came from your association. Are you satisfied that the request is outdated now?

[Claude Garand]

I'd rather not answer. I'm not sure, because I'm not part of the executive now.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

How about you, Mr. MacTavish?

[Malcolm MacTavish]

I can't comment. Because of the traffic on that road, I don't go down there very often.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Mr. Perras, your comments lead me to believe that your degree of satisfaction, as an administrator in your municipality, is not far from 100%.

Are you satisfied with the way in which the National Capital Commission is managing the park and its lands as well as the relationship it has with your municipality?

[Jean Perras]

It is a long process. There have been many changes and improvements over the last 20 years. Many work plans have been tabled by the NCC. This bill must be passed. It is a good bill that should improve our relationship even more.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

It will bring together certain things.

[Jean Perras]

Yes. Is it perfect? No.

As I was saying to Mr. Bevington, we have been talking about a better way of distributing the NCC's tax base for years. We also would like our roads to be in better shape, for the services of the RCM police to be paid for us, etc. There is a lot of work left to be done, but let us say that in terms of appreciation, it's better than a passing mark.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

That is what I understood.

As for the future management of these lands, I don't need to spell it out for you. Some groups are opposed to development, some would like to see more, and others want this area to be recognized as a national park. From what I understand, you feel that the status quo is reasonable.

I would like to move to another subject now. In the bill, there is a reference to a master plan that the NCC would have accepted, that the governor in council would accept and which would then be tabled in Parliament, without however being approved of by the latter. We in the Liberal Party believe that this plan should be approved by Parliament.

Speaking of this plan, I would suggest—and the Liberal Party is committed to this aspect—that the plan should take into consideration the potential distribution of jobs in the region. For years now, job distribution in the National Capital Region has been called for in the following percentages: 75 for the Ontario side and 25 for the Quebec side. No one is policing this. We believe that it should be the role of the NCC, within the framework of its master plan.

You have already had a career in the federal public service. You are aware of the issue. We do not want this to be strictly about jobs under the Canadian government's Treasury Board Secretariat. We want it to include all direct and indirect Canadian government jobs, that is to say all federal organization jobs. This would involve the addition of approximately 10,000 more jobs on the Quebec side of the Ottawa River. This would not necessarily have to be only within the former cities of Hull, Gatineau or Aylmer. It could go beyond that. However, we insist that this job distribution be part of the NCC's mandate, that it be part of its master plan and that this master plan be approved by Parliament.

What do you think?

[Jean Perras]

I will put on my hat as warden of the RCM des Collines-de-l'Outaouais to tell you that we are in the process of rewriting our master plan, the Regional County Municipality development plan. In this plan, it is clearly established that we hope there will be economic development and job creation in the RCM des Collines-de-l'Outaouais.

Since Gatineau Park and the NCC play an important role in the objectives that we have set out because of the scope of the park in terms of recreation, tourism, and sports, any federal strategy that is developed together with the provinces would be welcomed by our RCM.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I have just a little point of clarification.

We are not only talking about Gatineau Park, but about the RCM as such. The greater part of the RCM is situated within the territory we call the "National Capital Region".

[Jean Perras]

I am thinking primarily of the municipalities of Pontiac and La Pêche, which border the park.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Okay, but that is outside the park.

[Jean Perras]

It is outside the park, however, we have an osmotic relationship with the park on a daily basis. We are for anything that can improve employment in the region.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

All right.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you.

Monsieur Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Gentlemen, clause 10.4(2) reads as follows: “The Commission shall give due regard to the maintenance of the ecological integrity [...] of any property of the Commission [...]”

All Quebeckers and Canadians would like the NCC to maintain and rehabilitate Gatineau Park. We have to do a little more than simply wait, hope or give due regard to the park. The NCC has to have this responsibility with respect to the park. Should the park be damaged, the NCC has to be able to rehabilitate it and provide stewardship.

Would you agree that the NCC should be responsible for maintaining and rehabilitating the park?

[Jean Perras]

As my two colleagues said in their presentation, I have no problem with that providing that property rights are respected. On the contrary, any effort to rehabilitate and protect the biodiversity is good. The Government of Quebec and the other departments consider the Outaouais as being the region with the most biodiversity. That is why in Chelsea we created a conservation program called “Nature Chelsea”. We signed a Memorandum of Understanding with the NCC, which says specifically that when necessary, rehabilitation will be done.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

All right, you also understand that should something happen on private property, the NCC would be responsible for taking the requisite action, if there are damages and legal liability. This is part and parcel of this full protection for the park.

Does that suit you, Mr. Garand and Mr. MacTavish?

[Claude Garand]

As far as I'm concerned, yes. I am positive that the residents of Meech Lake would agree that this responsibility should lie with the NCC. We would support this type of mandate.